OK people, now is the time to decide the Pony's final powerplant

[Jed118]

Listen, this is going to be a lengthy read so if you're not going to read and understand me, then click "back" now.

Now then, if you're still reading, you're either stupid or genuinely want to know what is going on.

Here is the deal. Since I was a young'un, I wanted a fast, crazy pony. Steadily I started to form this into a reality from experiences derived from other cars, working on them, learning techniques aquiered from being exposed to the Pony and other cars. 6 Ponys and 17 cars later, the vision has not dimmed, rather it's iluminated my thoughts and the plans for my car are no longer thoughts, but flow through me. I guess that may be hard for some of you to understand, but this is a passion for me.
I am at a point now where I can confidently take on restructuring a Pony to handle the 4.3L motor. Money and time are not issues (as much as before): A place to do it is.

For the 4.3L to go in, I will need a garage. I have all the tools gathered over the years (MIG welder included, now that i'm not afraid to burn my arm with it and at least the base experience to undertake a project of this magnitude. I am ready.

However... I have seen a really good alternative. This "the 2.6" that mates perfectly to my tranny. I know cuz I went and saw one of the two engines like this in canada today. Ironically, it's a few mins down the road from my buddy's house, where I rebuilt the blue pony a couple summer's back. Had I known, I would have put THAT in the blue pony!

For $250 I get a 2.6l with a frozen carb, a hole in the rocker cover (fixable) and a few little broken parts here and there. Nothing I can't reuse off the 4G16. Compression was tested at 140 PSI throughout. That's not all that bad considering the engine is 26 years old. I have no doubt that for a total of under $600 I can get this engine not only running, but moderately tuned as well. (I hope I could re-use the lightened flywheel!)HOWEVER, where the HELL am I gonna get spare parts for it? Like, internals im not too worried about, but if a water pump goes? Stuff like oil filters and other "generic" stuff fits from the 4G16, but specific stuff like head bolts? (As I would probably want to port the head) The 2.6L will be a one shot deal, and if it ever breaks, if fucked. All work will be totally custom.
I'd be keeping it N/A, and the goal would be to push 160 Hp and 175 or so ft lbs.
Advantages: Cheap motor, almost direct bolt in, (more so than my 4G63T idea) and weight is very similar to a 4G16. Shit, it even LOOKS like a bigger 4G16.
Disadvantages: aftermarket died in the early 80's, as did most parts. I would NOT know where to get any part for this engine. Im sure chrysler would tell me to fuck myself if I ordered head bolts off them. I don't even know the code for this motor.

Now, the 4.3L LB1 I know is a strong motor, with a good aftermarket and parts interchangeability from it's bigger LT1 8 cylinder counterpart. It is a very simple motor. When I am done with it, I aim to have 200 Hp and 300 ft lbs. Can be done for relatively cheap, biggest obstacle are the heads, which are iron and flow very poorly. Aluminum go for $700up, plus they have to be ported too. I'd swap 'em for the weight, as one head weighs roughly 40 pounds. I allready have a v6 and several performance parts for it.
Advantages: BIG V6 power. In a Pony. That's a VERY important thing for me. Few would mess with me at that point. I mean, the car will shake from the crazy cut cam.
Disadvantages: Frame strengthening, complete driveline swap.

Both of these routes will cost me money, but more importantly time. I have time to do this, but I want to set out to finish my dream. In either case, the entire car needs work at this point.

What im trying to say, is I can have a respectable pony if even I put in the 2.6. I could always redo it later for the V6. However, when that happens, What am I going to do with the 2.6? I know I wouldn't be able to sell it to anyone, so it would have been wasted money. And then I would have to redo the whole damn mess to accept the V6. I'd be doing work 2x.

I'm seriously stuck. I want my pony back, life is hard wihtout RWD. But im afraid im just gonna sell my dream short and settle with a 2.6. And if I do put in the 2.6L in and become dissatisfied with it, that would suck. I'd probably loose all interest in it after that and just buy a damn IROC Z. I don't want it to come do that.

Don't talk to me about turboing the 2.6. That will never happen. It's going to stay N/A if anything.

So, should I continue saving up and reworking the car from scratch and do it up the way i've always wanted (can take years) or put the damn 2.6L in there and settle for a 4 banger?

Remember, im doing it for the TORQUE and the FEEL of a powerful V6 engine.

[endlessmike]

dont settle for less jed. go for your dreams. while the 2.6 seems like less hassle up front, in the long run in could turn out to be a REAL headache. just keep saving and go with the 4.3 and build that ultimate pony power. you can do it jed, i have faith.

[MechaniX_034]

V6, you have the capabilities, you have the tools and you got the will to do it, at this point asking "why" shouldnt be an issue, you should be asking "why not?" Time to make things happen bro!

[beppomarx]

i want to tell you to go for the 4.3 swap... but i also dont want you to end up splattered around a telephone pole.

300ft/lbs in a 20 year old <2000lb (especially stripped) car doesnt involve just an engine swap. youd better be VERY concerned with the brakes, suspension, and torsional rigidity of the frame as well.

if you really want the 4.3 then you will never be satisfied with the 2.6- period. just be very careful man. very very careful.

[MechaniX_034]

Jed knows what needs to be done, and I am pretty confident he can already build a tubeframe, or even a hybrid tube and monocoque subframe which will be able to handle the stress to the chassis.

[beppomarx]

yes i know but he is already contemplating cost issues. i dont want to see any cut corners like retaining stock brakes (i assume the rears are drum), stock springs, shocks, rims, tires etc.

i know he is knowledgeable ive just seen the way he (a lot like myself) riggs up things and he is talking about a pretty serious power/weight ratio. without actually SPENDING the $$$ on suspention reconditioning and all that good stuff all the frame stiffness in the world isnt gonna do the whole job when it comes time to come to an abrupt halt from 120mph, or trying to really drift on mediocre or blown shocks etc...

its just that i know to make a car thats good and reliable all around is gonna take a few thousand dollars, and i have never heard of jed spend more than like 40 bucks on all of his DIY mods lol!!! (no offense man cos i do it too trust me : )

[Jed118]

The pony's stock weight is 2350 lbs. I suspect it will weigh over 2500 lbs when you factor in the weight of the V6, T5 tranny, and mustang rear axle. Plus all the tubes for teh frame.

I have not spent $$$ because all the mods I do are temporary. SO far body work to the pony has cost me way more than $40 however.

In any case, i've spent some time ammasing the parts needed for the full car. The rear brakes are drums, and shall remain that way, however im going to be using a mustang 8.8 inch rearend and therefore using those brakes. The front brakes will be out of a 2.0 Stellar2. They are the same disk surface, however they are vented and the caliper is twice the size. The stock brakes can barely handle the car as it is, the pads are 1x2 inches roughly. The stellar2 ones are much larger. Also the front shock assembly will be the same stellar2 units, as they are out of a much heavier car and would support the 4.3L without major issues.

The only problem I will most likely have is taht I may have to go to manual brakes as the power booster will interfere with the engine's placement. Again, I may have to put in a different/smaller brake master/booster combination. Ill look in cars of similar weight and pressure.

This is the one i've been saving for, and it will cost me money to do. While I have no problem buying a used 8.8 inch LSD rearend for $100, I assure you I will spend twice that (if necessary) on reconditioning the brakes on it! I will also need to have a driveshaft made (ill probably make it myself if the shaft thicknesses are similar) but I will still need to have it balanced.

Very well, it looks as if I will begin prepping the car for the V6. This year then, I will put in the 4G16 out of the blue pony, and finish ALL the body and electrical work to the car. The larger front brakes will be fitted, and once the car is driveable, frame reinforcement will begin in preparations for the V6. On the side I will begin to reassemble the V6 and perhaps if I find a place over the colder months, begin installing the actual engine.

This will be a long undertaking, and the car may not be fully ready for a few years, a couple if i focus my energy and time properly.

It will not be easy, as I will have to move out sometime, and get a decent job somewheres... this means no more summers spent entirely on a car, for the rest of my life! Fuck I hate that!

Well whatever, im going to give it my all.

[MechaniX_034]

We got your back, and remember dammit wear long feckin sleeves when you weld!:lol:

[SpeedRacer]

Originally posted by Jed118
[body]The front brakes will be out of a 2.0 Stellar2. They are the same disk surface, however they are vented and the caliper is twice the size. The stock brakes can barely handle the car as it is, the pads are 1x2 inches roughly. The stellar2 ones are much larger. Also the front shock assembly will be the same stellar2 units, as they are out of a much heavier car and would support the 4.3L without major issues.

The only problem I will most likely have is taht I may have to go to manual brakes as the power booster will interfere with the engine's placement. Again, I may have to put in a different/smaller brake master/booster combination. Ill look in cars of similar weight and pressure. [/body]

I'm all about seeing you get this done. But dude...those little brakes ARE NOT gonna cut it. Same with the suspension.

Do what you gotta do...just please be safe.

[pucci]

my worthless 2 pennies:

forget about that 2.6. something that old, no matter its condition, with parts availability issues, would be a waste of time & effort.

as for the 4.3, I personally puke on GM products but that's just me. as you & the others have been pointing out, chassis improvement is crucial & to do it properly that's a whole other project in itself. sounds like you're up for it, but a good workspace to use for the duration of the build is needed.

you mention the bolt up nature of the 2.6 & that's a huge plus. unless the bolt pattern is different(not overly familiar w/these), it would seem to me that going for a later 2.6 from a StarQuest would be a no brainer: MPI, factory turbo, plenty of power potential to surpass the V6. not turboing a carby 2.6, but putting in the whole package as it was made at the factory. 2600cc is pretty decent displacement for a I4 & a turbo huffing into it will make plenty torque to put a grin on your face(try 234 lb-ft@2500 - that's stock spec).

[body]I don't even know the code for this motor. [/body]

G54B, produced in one form or another until 89.

[body]life is hard wihtout RWD.[/body]

I've somewhat recently joined the ranks of the RWD motivated with the aquisition of my Impulse Turbo & I really like it. a lot. coincidently, it is also a Guigiaro car so that makes it a distant relative to your Pony. very distant. through marriage. :

whatever you go for, good luck & I'm sure you will make it kick ass.

:smoking:

[Edited by pucci on Jan 12, 2005 2:32 PM]