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post #1 of 36 Old 01-13-2005, 04:24 PM Thread Starter
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Alpha 1.5L sohc accent turbo kit

First of all let me say I've been a long lurker of the board and I have to say this really is a great support site for the hyundai enthusiasts. It really reminds me of the way that clubdsm started a long long long time ago. I've also noticed that alot of people on here have 1.5's and want turbo kits but don't have the mechanical skills to do it. I've made custom kits for honda's, DSM's, toyota's and fords before.

With that said who would be interested in having kits made for the 1.5 sohc accent? I know there are some kits out for the 1.6 but nothing really for the 1.5. I'm in the process of building a template kit right now and having flanges made. Kits will come with choices of mitsubishi 14b or 16g turbos with clipped wheels. Choice of plain or ceramic coated headers. Downpipe, intercooler, BOV and all the cold charge piping to the throttlebody and all the oil lines couplings/clamps needed for installation.

You provide injectors, fuel pump and MAF.

Why mitsu turbos you ask? They are widely available and often times for the performance they offer they are cheaper in price than garrett turbos.

A standard GN t3 turbo will flow about 300 cfm effciently. A t-25 will also flow close to 300cfm, but not efficiently. What does this mean. That means to get that amount of air flow going that you would be spinning the compressor wheels way to fast. Burning up your seals and resulting in blowing out nothing but hot air that even your intercooler can't cool down properly not to mention the knock/detonation you get with hot air. A 14b can flow about 405cfm efficiently, and small 16g can flow about 500-505 cfm.

You may be saying "these turbos are to big for the 1.5". Not true. The turbos you buy normally may have too much lag and result in a less than desired power band. The reason for that is because of the angle of the fins on the wheel. They are not meeting enough air from the your manifold to spool fast enough. So what's done? change the angle. You simple can't just grab pliers though and bend the fins to spool faster. It has to be measured and balanced otherwise you'll throw out your seals. However a clipped turbo will spool faster and is ideal for engines with small amounts of displacement. look at honda's. They have 1.6l motor's running 10sec in the 1/4. (granted they have head work etc etc.. but they're also spooling huge turbos like t60-1's).

The cold air piping is important on any kit built. The amount of air pushed out is not the only important thing. If that were the case then we could simply get a big box fan and hook it up to our intakes for more air flow. Turbo's work because the air is compressed. You want to keep that air "compressed". It will naturally want to expand and if you let it you will lose density and velocity. Which in turn will cause you to lose torque. All the piping is 2.25" mandrel bent steel in order to provide the least resistance as possible in as tight of a space as possible. This keeps your torque up. After all what good is making horsepower if you can't move from a dead stop.

Want the cool pshhhhh sound? It's really not a problem these kits have the bov set in a way so that it doesn't interupt the metered air going to your motor. So you don't bog down, run pig rich, and almost stall your car out everytime you come to a stop or step off the gas.

Kits will come with the option of a installation instructions including pictures so that you don't have to pay someone $500-1000 for installation.

Right now i'm looking to see how many people are interested. If there isn't a large enough interest then i'm not going to bother.

The first kit (mine) will be the most expensive to make. I am awaiting a spare motor also to help mock it up on (makes it easier than doing it on the car). If you're interested let me know. I could also offer options for people, like you could just buy the piping if you wanted to save your money and get your own intercooler and turbo.. since that's where a good portion of the cost is at.

If you're interested at all please post a reply. I will be sure to post pictures and dyno charts of before and after on the kit. Thanks.
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post #2 of 36 Old 01-13-2005, 04:26 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Alpha 1.5L sohc accent turbo kit

Forgot to mention, if there is a large enough interest then I will set this up under a legal business with visa/master card payments just so you know it's legit.

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post #3 of 36 Old 01-13-2005, 04:43 PM
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Re: Alpha 1.5L sohc accent turbo kit

Sounds good, I would be interested, but I can say it's not practical for me from a financial perspective (at least for another 2 or 3 years).

You mentioned you've done this for other cars... Could you throw up some links or photos and show us what you've done?

Driving in Ohio blows.
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post #4 of 36 Old 01-13-2005, 04:52 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Alpha 1.5L sohc accent turbo kit

I don't have any photo's. I know that really takes away from credibility. Just that I've always done this for myself or close relatives. However I will have pictures of everything when it's complete.

If you're in a financial bind I could also sell part by part. Really I suggest everyone just buy the piping kit and get the intercooler/turbo themselves since they can find really good deals from people upgrading online.

I will take pictures of this kit both on and off the motor once it's completed.

Like I said if you're like me then I really suggest if you want to turbo your car but don't have the know how on the welding. Or the patience it takes to fabricate custom parts then just I would just buy the piping kit, because that's really the hardest part. Used 14b's can be had for cheap that are still in good condition. I just bought one myself for $100 shipped to my door. Intercoolers can be had for cheap also if you shop around.
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post #5 of 36 Old 01-13-2005, 05:59 PM
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Re: Alpha 1.5L sohc accent turbo kit

Excellent idea, we need more options to have performance like any others brands, I recently started to buy parts for my turbo project, bought custom manifold, BOV, and I´m so happy to order a mitsu TC-05 turbo, according of what you say about convenience of this kind of turboĦĦĦĦ

Wish you the best support to your idea, good luck:

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post #6 of 36 Old 01-13-2005, 08:59 PM
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Re: Alpha 1.5L sohc accent turbo kit

I am interested in the kit, but not to buy one(sorry)... A word of advice.. Im sure you know the reason people own Accents (they're cheap)... I think this is a wonderful idea! many people on here lack the knowledge or capability to build a setup themselves... I know this because I get emailed atleast once a week by people asking me how I did it, and what they would need to do the same...

I am curious as to how you would setup the BOV to not recirculate, and not cause any problems with the MAF? Even though, I have done this, it wasn't without problems,(the ones stated)... Recirculating part of the air? Possibly using a check valve?

Next, what type of manifold are you looking to utilize? will it be a log style made up of weld elbows, and "T's"? An equal length? If so, what thickness is the material being used?

Are the turbo's to be internally, or externally gated? At what boost will the actuator be set if it is to be internally gated? I am assuming internally because an external wastegate was not listed on the parts list...

Is their, or will their be some sort of warranty with these kits? Are all the turbo's used, new, or rebuilt?

Lastly.(I think) I built my original 6psi setup for around $600 or so, including injectors(betas), and MAF... At 6psi, I put down 139whp, and 163ftlbs of torque.... That was with a not the best manifold, and basically no tuning... Running a little lean was 139, richened it up a bit the whp went to 136.9, and the torque was I think 172...

Okay I guess I wasn't done... So I realize my labor costs were NILL' what are yours? In other words, have a better idea of what this may cost, for the poor folks who drive Accents, and want forced induction?

Geez... Oh yeah... What kind of car are you fitting this on again? LC,(2000 and up) or1999, and below) X3??? Theie is a difference in motor configuration...

Thanks! Good luck!
Rob

[Edited by rab71 on Jan 13, 2005 6:03 PM]

*New project: 1985 RX7 W/ 302 Ford V8. 12's all day... W/out spray.
SOLD!!! 97' Accent turbo project,DSM T25 turbo, custom manifold, melpassi RRFPR, AVO Billet DV/BOV, walbro 255 lph 95-99 Eclipse fuel pump, custom front mount intercooler, custom 2.5" exhaust w/ Pacesetter resonator(no muffler) , aluminum 2.25" intercooler piping, tiburon TB, MAF, 24#Injectors, SAFC Highest I've run is 14psi.
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post #7 of 36 Old 01-13-2005, 11:01 PM
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Re: Alpha 1.5L sohc accent turbo kit

i am interested, but again, rab brought up some real good points.

Right now I am just upgrading to a header and high-flo cat and cat back system.

I agree with the turbo choice, good idea, but really almost any turbo will do the trick at low boost, 8 or less.

why not just throw the injectors and fuel pump in the mix?? the maf most will already have, but how can you fool it to not compensate.

and doesn't the accent have a long-term detonation setting??
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post #8 of 36 Old 01-13-2005, 11:09 PM
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Re: Alpha 1.5L sohc accent turbo kit

Just one minor point......the 1.5 SOHC Alpha I engine is the EASY one to turbo, due to the (fairly inexpensive) availability of the S-Coupe Turbo`s cast iron exhaust manifold from Hyundai Dealerships & scrapyards......about $160 new I recall.
The flange on this will take any stock Garrett T2 Series turbo (T20, T22, T25, T28) + GT versions & also the GT15........as well as any used ex-Nissan turbos from the above range (but not ex-DSM or Mitsu. variants, due to their different flanges).

To be quite frank, I think it`s the DOHC guys who need help most!.

Just my £0.02
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post #9 of 36 Old 01-13-2005, 11:51 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Alpha 1.5L sohc accent turbo kit

Quote:
Originally posted by rab71
[body]
I am interested in the kit, but not to buy one(sorry)... A word of advice.. Im sure you know the reason people own Accents (they're cheap)... I think this is a wonderful idea! many people on here lack the knowledge or capability to build a setup themselves... I know this because I get emailed atleast once a week by people asking me how I did it, and what they would need to do the same...

I am curious as to how you would setup the BOV to not recirculate, and not cause any problems with the MAF? Even though, I have done this, it wasn't without problems,(the ones stated)... Recirculating part of the air? Possibly using a check valve?

Next, what type of manifold are you looking to utilize? will it be a log style made up of weld elbows, and "T's"? An equal length? If so, what thickness is the material being used?

Are the turbo's to be internally, or externally gated? At what boost will the actuator be set if it is to be internally gated? I am assuming internally because an external wastegate was not listed on the parts list...

Is their, or will their be some sort of warranty with these kits? Are all the turbo's used, new, or rebuilt?

Lastly.(I think) I built my original 6psi setup for around $600 or so, including injectors(betas), and MAF... At 6psi, I put down 139whp, and 163ftlbs of torque.... That was with a not the best manifold, and basically no tuning... Running a little lean was 139, richened it up a bit the whp went to 136.9, and the torque was I think 172...

Okay I guess I wasn't done... So I realize my labor costs were NILL' what are yours? In other words, have a better idea of what this may cost, for the poor folks who drive Accents, and want forced induction?

Geez... Oh yeah... What kind of car are you fitting this on again? LC,(2000 and up) or1999, and below) X3??? Theie is a difference in motor configuration...

Thanks! Good luck!
Rob

[Edited by rab71 on Jan 13, 2005 6:03 PM]
[/body]
Let me start out by saying thanks for the questions. I like being able to cover the details people are truely interested in. Now on to the answers.

About the bov and the MAF. The reasons why cars bog down and then start to run pig rich is because of metered air that get's released in the atmosphere. When this happens the computer has already accounted for air coming into the motor and has adjusted the fuel curve accordingly. However since you've already released the air into the atmosphere, it no longer exists Thus you get nothing but fuel dumped into the combustion chamber with hardly any air to burn it... so poof black smoke.. car chokes and sometimes dies.

There are two ways to fix this. first off you can get an entirely new computer. Not a piggy back system but a new computer. This is expensive. Another way to fix this is to vent the air before it get's metered. There are no rules that say the blow off valve have to be after your maf. Alot of factory turbo cars have them after the maf mainly because of 1 thing... they use a draw-through mas air metering system instead of a blow through. which means the meter is before the turbo and the turbo sucks air through it. Blow through is the exact opposite.

Where do you place the bov you ask.. it doesn't matter Typically what you want to make sure is that there is at about 8-10" of straight pipe after it. I find that a few inches after the intercooler is a nice place. It can actually make the blow off valve sound louder to people not in the car with you because the sound will bounce off the ground.

2nd question. What type of manifold am I looking to utilize. Before I get started you have to realize a few things about these motors.. or just about small motor's in general. In a naturally aspirated state these engine's just don't flow alot of air and the turbo's that I mentioned, when in comparison to most other turbos, are really not big at all. You use equal length headers to provide equal flow and to help against turbulant air flow. And usually only use them on large turbo setups. Secondly cost effectiveness. What is going to get you the most bang for your buck. Like you said I know the reason alot of people own an accent (it's the same reason I own one) because they're cheap. Equal length headers cost a substantial amount more to make than log headers. 1 because of the time involved to create them, and secondly because of the amount of bends required to make them.

With all that said to finally answer your question I will make the log headers. The will definatley offer performance over the stock headers in the sense that the piping for them alone will be slightly larger. Also it doesn't take as much as people think to spool a small turbo. These turbo's will be clipped for faster spool time, so that should help quite a bit and help relieve some people's concerns.

3rd question. Wastegates. Again to cut on costs they will be internally gated. Internal gates work on solenoids and vacuum pressure. They also have a spring inside of them. With a aquarium valve.. or just a grainger valve you can adjust the boost anywhere from 7 psi to 20 psi (I've done that on the 14b but never had any desire to push for more since it starts pushing hot air after about 16 psi).

Only warranty would be on the turbo's themselves. And it would not be through me. I would provide people with the appropriate paper work that would come with the turbos. The 14b's would be rebuilds, and the small 16g's would be new. I could not offer warranty on the piping (it's piping I mean there's not a whole lot to it unless you physically try to damage it).. also the intercooler is a difficult item to warranty. If you bottom out to hard then you could create a leak in the aluminum. However luckily this is easily repaired by almost any exhaust shop. They'll pressure test it and can patch the leak for you for a minimum amount (I've had this done myself many times on my lowered eclipse.. needless to say I installed some coil overs instead and left it at factory height).

4th question.. labor costs. This is a good question. I will first put my estimated material costs for the pipes and then the labor costs and then the costs for the turbo and intercoolers.

Estimated costs for the materials should be about including custom flanges.. gaskets.. hoses t-clamps (not regular clamps) piping etc comes close to $600 Alone for a quality very nice looking kit. Now cost could go up or down, I have to shop around really.

Labor is a tough one. I can't really say for sure on that one since I won't know until the first kit is complete. There's also not a kit being mass produced for these cars so it makes even harder to price out. But I'll estimate labor at $500-600

Cost for turbo and intercooler. A small 16g can be had for $570. A rebuilt 14b for probably about $450.

Intercooler can also be had for between $500-700

Throw in your injectors and maf from www.car-part.com. Find a FPR and fuel pump somewhere and you're ready to rock

I'm estimated for a fuel kit you providing your own

all in all I'm going to estimate the kit to be priced at $2500-2600. With you providing your own fuel setup. Which most kits tell you to do anyway. Or the ones that do cost close to 3500.

Just for the piping I'm going to estimate being $1200.

You can find good used mitsu turbos for cheap online in different forum classified sections.

these are not scrap pieces that will be put together.. so there won't be like 50 welds in a 2" stretch.

I'm not sure how you got away with $600 for your entire setup. a t25 on ebay or on a trader forum will go for about $100... walboro fuel pump for a DSM will also go for about that much. Billet BOV, not sure how much those go for. Then you had to make your custom manifold.. all your mandrel bent piping for your intercoolers and such.. the downpipe, injectors, looks like your intercooler is one of those funky ones that ford used.. believe they actually sat on top of the motor, about the same size as a side mount intercooler. I'm not judging you or calling you out but that's really hard to do even if you're picking parts out at the junk yard. I commend you on the good job getting everything done so cheaply. Normally even at the cheapest if I had to buy all that without having stuff laying around my house it still would've cost me around $1000

I used to pick alot of mandrel bent pipe (saabs and audi's) out at the junk yard. The guy would give it to me for free. But the metal had so many impurities alot of times the welds were ugly, the steel would get really nasty colored. A good portion of cost comes from getting the mandrel bends. The ones I use for this kit will be new clean ones.

People who want this kit will get full instructions with pictures. I will also offer installation support through email/AIM to people who buy the kit.

Like I said, for most people I really suggest just the piping, because you can find intercoolers and turbos online used for super cheap. Not to mention if there was another mitsu turbo you wanted to use (t25, 13c, big 16g, t28, 20g, big/killer 16g, any of the frank series turbos.. etc etc) you could use those also.

I won't have a TRUE price until I get the first kit built. However if I don't see a demand for one then I won't even bother. I'll just build my own kit and be done with it. However if there's a demand then I'll go for it.

forgot to mention these will be for 2000 lc's

[Edited by daihashi on Jan 13, 2005 8:53 PM]
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post #10 of 36 Old 01-13-2005, 11:57 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Alpha 1.5L sohc accent turbo kit

Quote:
Originally posted by sidecutter
[body]
i am interested, but again, rab brought up some real good points.

Right now I am just upgrading to a header and high-flo cat and cat back system.

I agree with the turbo choice, good idea, but really almost any turbo will do the trick at low boost, 8 or less.

why not just throw the injectors and fuel pump in the mix?? the maf most will already have, but how can you fool it to not compensate.

and doesn't the accent have a long-term detonation setting??
[/body]
Fuel injectors and pump could be thrown in for the mix, but I'm trying to offer the most cost effective kits. Which the thing most people have problems with is the piping. The piping is about half the cost, and the hardest part to do. People can all go get their own turbos/injectors/fuel pump by scrounging around junk yards or on the online parts classifieds for pennies compared to wht I could offer them for new/rebuilt turbos/intercoolers/injectors. I couldn't make a kit and give these people used parts. Really I'd prefer if people did do it that way, but if they wanted me to ship out a full kit including fuel setup then I suppose I could do it as long as they were willing to pay the price for it all.

As far as the detonation setting you're talking about. I'm not sure what you mean. If you mean a knock sensor then the answer is no, at least not that I'm aware of. I believe there are universal kits you can get to install a knock sensor in conjuction with like an MSD which will automatically retard timing when it detects knock (which is what alot of turbo cars do from the factory).

So to answer your question.. if your engine starts detonating, nothing is going to stop it.. kaboom.

[Edited by daihashi on Jan 13, 2005 10:16 PM]
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