Scoupe turbo 1.5 -> X3?

[X3Jason]

I tried doing a search to no avail. Will the bottom end of a 94 (i believe) Scoupe Turbo 1.5l bolt right into a 96 (early 96... like 2/96) Accent 1.5 SOHC? Theres a Scoupe in the local junkyard with a complete engine and tranny. I wanted to swap just the bottom end of the motor in, put my X3 head and manifolds on and still be able to run my stock ecu. Is this possible, will I need a new cross-member or motor mounts, or will I need the Scoupe head as well? And will my auto tranny bolt up to the new engine? I know everyone will recommend against using the auto tranny but just considering a hypethetical situation.
If this should be in the Accent Forum or FI Forum I apologize. Thanks for any and all help.

Jason

[J.P.]

There was a website from Australia that explained the whole difference between the Alpha I Scoupe and Alpha II that the Accent used. They showed the head gaskets, and I remember the passages didn't line up. If I was in your shoes, I would consider buying the whole front clip from the Scoupe turbo. For the '95-96 and some '97 Accents the front roll stop mount is on the engine block like the Scoupe. That should make an easier (don't read easy!) engine swap, since from what I have seen poking around the J.Y. it should go in okay. Later Accents are better suited to the Beta swap for this reason, yours should be easier to go back to the Scoupe running gear. As for running the stock computer, I would grab the Scoupes and make it work. It would be a much better starting point, even if it is a bit of work to install. The wreckers can nickel and dime you to death going back for more parts since they know you need the rest of the bits to make it work. I made arrangements to buy a front clip and leave the car at the wrecking yard. That way I had a fixed price for EVERYTHING forward of the steering wheel. I only took what I needed, and I didn't have to pay to have the clip shipped to my house, or to have the gutted nose hauled away afterwards. The tranny should bolt up no problem, but I am not sure how the TCU works. If it is part of the ECU (haven't looked into an automatic before), then you might have issues unless it was a Scoupe turbo with automatic (if they made such a beast - I can't recall).

- JP.

[J.P.]

One more thing. Check to see if the Scoupe has a distributor cap. I learned from one of the other members recently that the final run of the Scoupe was OBD-II, and that would make you life a lot easier (more common electrical parts with a '96 Accent).

- JP.

[rab71]

I wouldnt use the Scoupe ECU... It controls the boost, ie. pain in the ars... Next, I would call teh local Hyundai dealer, and have them compare the head gaskets, for you to see if they line up. As far as I know it should work... As for the tranny, call level 10... They can do some amazing stuff with auto trannies, anyway a built automatic will always be faster than a stick...

Good luck!
Rob

[X3Jason]

Hey guys, thanks for the info.
I've been searching online at a few retailers and many use the same part number for a Scoupe Turbo headgasket and a SOHC Accent headgasket which leads me to believe they are the same. I will definately check the dealer part numbers first. The possible difference in the head gaskets could be from the 8valve scoupe motor and the 12 valve motor. G4DJ and G4EK, respectively, are what the dealer had asked me one time, I think, but don't quote me.
I would love to get the whole front clip, but I need to decide which direction I want to go in first. My other option was to look for a copper headgasket to lower compression but I'm having a little difficulty finding some numbers. Head Gasket Works in CA (I believe) replied and said for only 1 copper gasket it would be around $150. Possibly a group buy anybody? But the guy at the junkyard said I could have the whole bottom end of the motor for $150. Extra engine to rebuild and drop in. Any suggestions guys?

One last thing I noticed while on WebTech is that the Scoupe Turbo intake cam timing is 8 degrees to 52 degrees. While the Accent is 12 degrees to 52 degrees. the exhaust timing is 52 to 8 for the Scoupe and 52 to 12 on the Accent. But the Accent intake lobe lifts about 1.6mm higher than the Scoupe. Would this cam work better, whether I stay with my current bottom end or swap in the Scoupe bottom end (if possible)?

[Edited by X3Jason on Dec 6, 2004 7:40 AM]

[beppomarx]

i can only talk from experience about my 93 scoupe turbo.

the heads will swap, the bottom end will swap no problem. the original alpha head gasket was 22311-22001, soon after was revised to a 22311-22120 2-ply design. in the even later years it changed toa 3-ply design 22311-22130. if you have a 1993 scoupe (like i do) and go to the dealer to ask for a head gasket they will give you the same new 3-ply one one that is found on 2001 1.5 accents, 22311-22130. thats is the gasket that i run in my scoupe.

85% of scoupes you will find have distributers, like someone already said only the final year (1995) had electronic ignition. i didnt know they were OBD II though hmm...

as for the cam, thats debatable. the scoupe cam chokes itself out by 5000rpm or so, but giving it more overlap and trying to up the boost over 15 or so PSI will probably create blowby. i would see if you can get a good machine/race shop to regrind a NA cam and keep the good lift, but shave a few degrees of overlap off. it may very well be possible.

i dont see a problem with your accent ECU controlling the scoupe block so long as you add a RRFPR and an SAFC or something similar.

if you want my opinion on the compression issue, what i plan on doing is stroking the crank by about .7 to .75mm. will do this by buying the smallest rod bearings available at hyundai (.75mm undersize) and having the lobes cut off-center. then shave the top of the piston about .35-.375 (depending) to clear the head, and then also mill the head to specs once i work out how much to mill. i want to create around a 8.3 CR or higher (without having too little piston to valve clearance). of course i will be porting and polishing the head as well and likely doing a 3-angle valve job.

i find it interesting the NA's cam has THAT much of a higher lift, maybe i will price for myself a regrind for the NA cam.

when do you plan on tackling this project? im not too far away and might be able to lend a hand if work permits

[Edited by beppomarx on Dec 8, 2004 7:59 AM]

[rab71]

Geez Beppo thast a whole lot of work just for a compression ratio... Wouldn't be easier just to buy the correct pistons, at the ratio you want? Unless you can have the machine work done cheaply... Machine work here is a mint! Anyway, with the Accent cam I would think that higher lift would create a little more velocity to help the turbo spool faster by allowing evreything to flow through... I know I like the way mine performs, only I need a port job... Oh, and as for the OBD I or II? I didnt think OBDII was put in until 96-97 cars... Where as that would mean Accents, and later end of the Scoupes...??? Anyway it doesn't really matter... Just use the Accent head with Scoupe bottom end.

Good luck!
ROb

[beppomarx]

not too bad. reworking and restroke of the crank is about $150 which i will probably have to do anyways pretty soon. im only gonna spend another 4 or 5 hours trying to work it free, after that its internal reconditioning time.

balancing will run about $110. shaving the head $60, depending on how much needs to be cut (# of passes). the 3angle is steep at about $270. cutting the piston tops is like $70 or so.

but total just to up the compression is only about $280 or so between restroking and shaving the head/pistons. still cheaper than going forged. and i get another 12cc or so of displacement out of it too. the valve job is the killer and that can wait until its ported. i do all the port work myself so all that it costs me is the price of dremel bits and electricity :. i have an extra head, actually i have 2 extra alpha heads if you wanna do an exchange or something just let me know.

and from what ive heard the final '95 year scoupes that used electronic ignition were the only ones OBDII. thats just heresay to me, i dont know. and youre right about higher velocity spooling faster, however at top end if youre running higher boost the overlap (not lift) is whats gonna cause blowby. again nothing that i would worry about if youre only boosting under 1 bar.

[X3Jason]

Hey Beppo,
What month was your scoupe turbo made? (on the drivers side door frame) From what I've been reading, 93 scoupes made in July and after are the alpha II block and before that the alpha I. I don't have a second source to back this up, which is why I'm asking you. My scoupe turbo (well, the one I bought the engine from) was manufactured on May/31/93. Figures. I picked up the whole engine, 5-spd turbo tranny, and the t-15 turbo for $300. The oil was black like it was old and very used, but everything else from the outside anyway seemed alright, except the exhaust manifold, which had cracked and caved into itself. Hopefully that was the major problem wrong with the car.

I'm going to have a shop do this for me. It's rather chilly these days and I don't have an engine lift or any other major tools. We're going to take a look at the whole thing probably Friday and decide whether the whole engine will go in after a rebuild, or will only the pistols/rods from the scoupe go into my accent block. Another thing I need to decide is whether to do the 5spd swap now. The shifter,master cylinder,pedals, etc are all free from the same junkyard, I just have to pull them at my leisure. And with a 5spd and upgraded power, the major part neccesary is a upgraded clutch. With an Auto tranny, the whole tranny needs to be reworked (Level10.com: $580) However, the automatic is more consistant and most of the turbo accents I've read about on here are 5spds, my auto is somewhat of an oddity. Everybody said the auto tranny wouldn't hold up and ::knocking on wood:: with just a tranny cooler it has held up to 10, 11, a peak of 12psi with no problems. I don't severly abuse my car either, but I take care of her and she takes car of me.

I'm unsure of what direction I will take with this new project, but as always I'm open to any sugguestions. Sorry for the deep sentiment too, but this is, again, another late night post. :embarrassed:

[Edited by X3Jason on Dec 15, 2004 6:59 PM]

[beppomarx]

well i dont know about the exact physical differences, by checking the parts catalogue they had made a few revisions here and there including with the rods and the blocks having different part numbers. seems that the biggest changes were made in may of 1994, not 1993 (probably for the 1995 model year revisions).

i would definitely move the whole scoupe turbo block into your car if its possible. heck maybe you could get the ECU to control your coil pack and keep the electronic ignition, that would be tight. obviously use your good exhaust manifold and keep the t25 :. you will notice quite a bit less off-boost power w/o the high compression and also more turbo hag (maybe a few hundred RPM).

i would also experiment with the cams, try the turbo cam and then the N/A cam. i bet you gain some power with the N/A cam.

also i see you already have the tranny and can get the clutch assembly for free, but just so you know a beta tranny and clutch will bolt right up. i wouldnt recommend it until you do something to strengthen the low-end power because the scoupe setup has no low end, but again with the manual you are damn near always shifting. i would go out on a limb and say that the ratios are even shorter than the 3cyl geo metro that i had years ago. but 1st gear needs to be short to make up for the bottom end power to get the car moving... id do the 5speed swap regardless.

and your engine swap excuses are weak :. i do all my work with a ratchet set, some open ended wrences, and screwdrivers. my engine hoist is my arms accompanied by martys, and im almost 6' 140lbs. hell im in the middle of one now we got teh block tore down last sunday and saturday 9am (2 days away yeah!) we start the buildup. course i did it ghetto and am not even spending any more money just swapping parts from engine to engine like one of your options. but i am swapping from 2 turbo motors, i wouldnt retain anything from the N/A motor except (if possible) the ignition module and cam. i dont know the physical specs (head chamber volume) of the NA vs turbo head but i would cc them and if theyre the same use the NA head because it wont have the distributer rotater thingy (getting technical on you here hehe) hanging off the cam.

MA isnt that far away or that big for that matter so you cant be far, if you want a hand with it let me know. gimme some food and shack me up for a night or 2 and ill just call it a vacation :lol:8D just email me.

[Edited by beppomarx on Dec 16, 2004 6:10 AM]