2004 beta 2 and up r maf not map???? - Hyundai Performance Forums

anthonyfa18 · 10-21-2005, 04:44 PM

ok i went to check out A beta2 cvvt out of a carsh tested 2004 tiburon and there are maf not map like the 02 to 03 beta2 non cvvt??? why did hyundai go back to maf???

thegrim · 10-21-2005, 05:43 PM

cvvt isnt a must man. its not like it adds HP. a non cvvt beta is just as fast as a cvvt beta IMO

WytchDctr · 10-22-2005, 08:54 AM

.. Actually it did (3hp or something along those lines) and not enough of them have made it to the track to say one way or another about who is faster. What in the world do you think the point of adding an "adjustable cam gear" to a beta without cvvt is doing? Its advancing the cams timing so it makes more power up at the top of its rev range. Now when you do that to a non-cvvt motor you loose some power lower, why? Because you are screwing with the cams "sweet spot" (Forgive me for not knowing the technical term for that) or when its timing makes optimal power. Now with cvvt, the ecm adjust that over the rev range. Keeping the low end torque intact and making a few horse when the engine is having trouble breathing, like our betas do above 6000rpm. IMO you are wrong. I have driven both and I say the cvvt was a nice improvement. NOTE: I have heard a few there are some issues with cvvt and boost. So if you want to go down that road do some research on it. I am referring to small mods or a stock motor for this comparison .

I think the maf gives a more accurate picture of the air coming thru the intake. What the actual reason they went back. I have no idea, maybe to better tune the cvvt system.

anthonyfa18 · 10-22-2005, 10:38 AM

^^^ ok i get what you were saying and that is why i want cvvt, but will the maf give me a problem when swap in to my accent because my 1.5L is a map???? if i am keeping the motor na and make it a high-revver will the cvvt help me???

[Edited by anthonyfa18 on Oct 22, 2005 6:42 AM]

thegrim · 10-22-2005, 04:20 PM

fuk cvvt. just allows for smoother power transitions or sumthing like that. i've pdi'd both cvvt and non elantra's before. they feel the same to me in the drivers seat. revs increase the same way and no noticeable top end gains. i'm just speaking from test drives. but i guess since ur in the technical part of it, it makes since. IMO, its a fake vvti/vtec made just to say we have continous variable valve timing like other leading competitors

edit- but wtf do i know, i'm just a stupid tech that works at a hyundai dealer for 2 years now.

[Edited by thegrim on Oct 22, 2005 12:29 PM]

WytchDctr · 10-23-2005, 03:42 AM

Well lets get all butt burt about this. They do make 3 more hp stock for stock do they not? Mine was rated at 135, the new cvvt elantra's are 138. Minor yes, but its still more power. That and the only cvvt elantra track times I have seen (on elantraxd.com) did extremly well for light mods. With an intake (might have had exhaust as well) it ran 15.9. Better than the non-cvvt's with the same mods. Maybe it was a freak, really good driver, or funky track.

Also your ecu will not like that, but if you going to swap your present ecu for the ecu made that motor that wont be a problem. Then its just wiring issues to deal with.

[Edited by WytchDctr on Oct 22, 2005 11:46 PM]

thegrim · 10-23-2005, 08:38 AM

^^agreed. the wiring can be solved thru SR though. they have an adaptor plug harness that will allow you to run a different ecu with the stock harness and the addition of some minor lug changes in the engine bay. so it would go like this

04 elantra ECU> adaptor harness> stock alpha harness plug in

and it eliminates the alpha ecu completely and cleanly. just ask them about it, its not posted but thats what they do with the turbo kits they use. they supply an 03 tiburon ecu and make it easily swappable that way.

anthonyfa18 · 10-23-2005, 01:35 PM

will, yestday i went to the srap, and found a beta2 non cvvt out of a 2003 elatrea, it look like i will be buying it, the cvvt will be a later project, mabe later on i will just swap the heads and ecu we will see !!!

bizzare · 10-24-2005, 02:17 AM

so youve been doing p'di's for 2 years now, i dont get it?

Anyways, lets get the whole CVVT issue clarified. CVVT stands for continiously variable valve timing. On the exaust camshaft, there is a hydraulically operated cam phaser. This allows for deviation of exhaust cam timing depending on engine load and rpm. What this does is offer optimal fuel economy. When the motor is idiling or low rpm the cam is to full advance to allow for minimum over lap. This gives you very smooth idilng. As rpms increase, engine loads increase and other variables change the operating conditions of the engine, the ECM retards the exaust cam timing to allow for more overlap, thus more power, thus better fuel economy and is why these motors dont have EGR systems.

So class, it seems that this is indeed a better setup than the previous non cvvt betas. Its just that no one has taken this system to its full advantage. This setup may or may not be ideal for forced induction but that is dependant on your setup. With the right tuning and parts anything can be turbo charged.

Quote:

[body]IMO, its a fake vvti/vtec made just to say we have continous variable valve timing like other leading competitors[/body]

vtec is not continiously variable. Two completely different systems for two completely different goals. With vtec there is a change over that happens at about 4k rpm regardless of endine load. The two intake rockers are hydraulically locked at this point and are forced to follow a more agressive part of the cam lobe which is why you can hear he damn thing activate from blocks away. This system is meant to push power delivery to the top end of the power curve, as well as allow the engine to spin at faster rpms. At the lower rpms there is high fuel economy and less emisions because the small displacement motor is running very conservitevaly

CVVT, toyota vvti, honda i-vtec and others are exhaust cam phaser actuator systems. As we discused these change the exhaust came timing to achieve the best possible fuel burn, and thus performance under all engine conditions. Specifically on hyundai engines they are meant to get better fuel economy because hyundai's are sold based on reliability, low cost and fuel economy, also known as value. This system if used more aggressivley gives the same, if not beter results than vtec. The GM 4.2L inline six makes 270hp, and close to 300 lb/ft of torque using this system:smoking: Those are damn good numbers if you ask me.

Quote:

[body]but wtf do i know, i'm just a stupid tech that works at a hyundai dealer for 2 years now.[/body]

you said it not me, and i dont even work for hyundai. GM all the way:smoking:

[Edited by bizzare on Oct 23, 2005 10:20 PM]

thegrim · 10-24-2005, 09:52 AM

ha, bizzare ur funny. what i'm saying is basically what u just clarified for me. that cvvt allows for smoother power transition (which is in one of me earlier post). and that it does compare to vvti and i-vtec (although i just put vtec). my point is it really isnt worth the extra wiring hassle for 3hp that you wont even feel in the driver's seat. i've been test driving the cars since i began work at hyundai which has been for 2 years now. no, pdi's arent all i do either.

EDIT- and i know what the fvck cvvt is and does. and the comment about being a dumb tech was highly fuvking sarcastic. i know what the hell i'm talkin bout, and its not worth it. go ahead and try turbocharging the cvvt motor and watch what happens to the head if not properly tuned and maintaned.

[Edited by thegrim on Oct 24, 2005 6:31 AM]