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post #11 of 18 Old 03-10-2002, 02:11 PM
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Re: How to fix the over rich condition EASILY

His basic theory works...in theory.

Fuel pump flow VOLUME decreases as pressure increases. SO the higher the pressure out of the pump, the less volume it flows.

The plan is to have the stock pump run normally 90% of the time. Then when he uses nitrous, the MSD pump would become a "pressure" pump, and the stock pump would be a "volume" pump.

The Pressure behind the MSD pump could be as low as 6-20 PSI. at that low of pressure the stock fuel pump should be able to flow serious Fuel VOLUME.

The MSD pump, when activated, will pressurize the large VOLUME that the stock pump is providing it.

The stock pump provides high volume, low pressure, the MSD pump creates high pressure, low volume.

There are many cars out there that from the factory use a 2 fuel pump setup, similar to this.

My only reservation with his setup is that the fuel could, in theory, flow backwards through the MSD pump when it is off. Unless the MSD pump has some kind of 1 way valve built into it. Even if this happens, it would be a temporary problem as eventually the fuel pressure on both sides would equalize. I would still install another 1 way valve AFTER the MSD pump to prevent fuel from reverting through the MSD pump.

In my opinion, this setup is WAY too complicated and way to failure prone for what should be a simple wet shot.

I do agree with Brendan than a Talon/Eclipse fuel pump would solve the problem for less money, and be much simpler, not have as many points of potential failure. There are so many fuel line connection points, and each one is a point of failure. Each electrical connection between the gas pedal, the nitrous controler and the MSD pump are points of failure. The one way valves are also points of failure.

A simple upgrade fuel pump and 100% stock lines would eliminate 75% of these potential failure points.

Granted...I'm not saying that any of these points WILL fail, they are simply potential failure points. The more potential failure points in a system, the more you increase the chance that it will fail. The old KISS principle.


<hr width=60% noshade size=1 align=left>quote from 4DoorGL: <b><i>"Told you. Random is cool as hell in person, even if he is a dick on the net <img src=/images/forums/snitz/wink.gif width=15 height=15 border=0> (j/k)" </b></i>

Leave it to Random to Needlessly complicate things.

Edited by - random on 03/10/2002 12:46:12 PM

Leave it to Random to needlessly complicate things.
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post #12 of 18 Old 03-10-2002, 05:33 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: How to fix the over rich condition EASILY

random, thanks for the input...


i thought about using another one way valve after the msd pump... but as i thought about the design a little furter, i noticed that fuel cannot revert through it because there is pressure on both sides of the msd pump.

this pressure is created by the stock pump.

also, once the car is running, the system remains pressurized and there is no reversion.


<hr width=60% noshade size=1 align=left>1999 Hyundai Elantra Auto. 80HP Wet Nitrous System. http://www.pcrepairworld.com/nitrousworld
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post #13 of 18 Old 03-20-2002, 05:23 PM
 
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Re: How to fix the over rich condition EASILY

Why complicate things so much?? all you need is a stronger intank pump to replace the stock unit. Walbro 255 lph hi pro, venom super cool, mitsu talon turbo stock pumps all fit our cars and it's a direct swap, they all can flow decent fuel rates at hi pressure and don't involve adding another pump, extra wireing etc etc etc. I've never leaned out and all my problems with the intank pump are due to WAY TOO MUCH fuel flow, not too little ( gee I actually had flames out my tail pipe with nos it was so rich like 9:1 ). While I greatly encourage and admire your efforts you should not complicate this, when it's actually easy.

http://webhome.idirect.com/~trini/car/pump.html

This information is years older than my site, it's tried and proven, and easy , while your setup will work, actually it can work well it's overkill. Also for nos the ideal fuel air ratio is 9.6:1 ie very rich so you actually want it rich and let the ecu deal with it the rest of the time when your not on wot.



Edited by - brendan on 03/20/2002 2:39:46 PM
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post #14 of 18 Old 03-23-2002, 07:22 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: How to fix the over rich condition EASILY

here is an updated image of the entire setup as installed by ME on MY car

i have already used 5 bottles with this fuel setup. works beautiful !!!!!!!

<img src="http://www.pcrepairworld.com/nitrousworld/wetsystemsetupand1wayvalve.jpg" border=0>


<hr width=60% noshade size=1 align=left>1999 Hyundai Elantra Auto. 80HP Wet Nitrous System. http://www.pcrepairworld.com/nitrousworld
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post #15 of 18 Old 03-23-2002, 07:22 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: How to fix the over rich condition EASILY

oops.. 3 bottles Hehehe


<hr width=60% noshade size=1 align=left>1999 Hyundai Elantra Auto. 80HP Wet Nitrous System. http://www.pcrepairworld.com/nitrousworld
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post #16 of 18 Old 03-23-2002, 10:53 PM
 
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Re: How to fix the over rich condition EASILY

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Wet Nitrous System<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

You mean I have been running a wet application all this time???

I always thought a wet appication meant the nitrous was mixed and put in at the fuel rail. Not the intake/intake manifold.


<hr width=60% noshade size=1 align=left>2003 Hyundai Tiburon GS-R V6 --on order still--

1999 Hyundai Sonata GL V6
H7 Blue Eurolite
GLS Chrome Grill
Custom Intake/Header/Exhaust
55 shot Nitrous Express

--no longer with me--
1997 Hyundai Tiburon
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post #17 of 18 Old 03-24-2002, 02:53 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: How to fix the over rich condition EASILY

looks like you've got some reading ahead of you smiley !!!!!!!!!!!!!!


wake up and smell the nitrous !!!


<hr width=60% noshade size=1 align=left>1999 Hyundai Elantra Auto. 80HP Wet Nitrous System. http://www.pcrepairworld.com/nitrousworld
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post #18 of 18 Old 03-24-2002, 10:09 PM
 
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Re: How to fix the over rich condition EASILY

<img src=/images/forums/snitz/wink.gif width=15 height=15 border=0>

<img src="http://www.nitrousexpress.com/scdp_c.gif" border=0>

I didn't know what the heck my friend was talking about when he wrote the post. He said something and I was like no the rail is direct port as you see above.

He thought it would be fun to post while I did up his taxes.

Seriously I know my crap. I got the NX Stage One EFI system which indeed is also a wet application.


<hr width=60% noshade size=1 align=left>2003 Hyundai Tiburon GS-R V6 --on order still--

1999 Hyundai Sonata GL V6
H7 Blue Eurolite
GLS Chrome Grill
Custom Intake/Header/Exhaust
55 shot Nitrous Express

--no longer with me--
1997 Hyundai Tiburon
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