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Discussion Starter #1
Im just wondering if the engine hardware in a Hyundai LC Accent 1.5L DOHC is the same as the 98 - 99 Hyundai Excel 1.5L DOHC... For example.. Pistons, Conrods, Cams etc. etc.

Are they built on the same structure... Or completely different.. Only thing i know that maybe different is the ECU to the Excels and Accents... But is there anything else that is different about them??
 

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Well, for starters, the accent is map, the excel is maf
 

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Ok bretton let loose with the explanations :)

I have no idea what the difference is..sumthing to do with how much air is let in etc etc...but Bretton knows all and usually writes an essay... :)

~BM~
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Im not talkin bout the maf and map.. Im wondering if they share the same hardware?? As same size pistons? Cams? Conrods? etc etc.
 

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The S-Coupe (1993-96) has the Alpha I series motor - 1.5 SOHC, MAF equipped, 66kw
The X3 Excel (1994-97) has the Alpha II series motor - 1.5 SOHC, MAF equipped, 65kw
The X3 Excel Twin Cam (1998-2000) has the Alpha III series motor - 1.5 DOHC, MAP equipped, 74kw
The LC Accent (2000-2002) has the Alpha IIII series motor - 1.5 DOHC, MAP equipped, 76kw

MAF = Mass Air Flow
It is a sensor located in a tube, placed between the air box and the thottle body. It measures the amount of air passing through the tube to work out teh volume of air beign sucked in by the engine. The MAF sensor has a length of wire which is heated up by passing a current through it. As air passes over this wire, it cools the wire down, which changes the resistance of the wire. It is this resistance of the wire which the computer reads to allow it to work out how much air the engine is using.

MAP = Mass Air Pressure
The MAP sensor is a small black plastic box attached to the plenum chamber which measures the air pressure in the plenum. When the engine is not running this will measure 14.3 psi (or 1 atmosphere or 1 BAR), being the weight of the air at sea level. When the engine is sucking in air, the plenum chamber will have a slight vaccuum inside it, so the air pressure being read by the MAP sensor will be slightly less than 14.3. The ECU works out the amount of air beint used by comparing the readings from the MAP sensor and the TPS (throttle position sensor).

The standard MAP sensor on a N/A car will only read vaccuum, however for a turbo car a different MAP sensor needs to be used, which can read vaccuum as well as positive pressure. Often you will hear of people referring to a 2 Bar or 3 Bar MAP sensor on a turbo car. The 2 Bar MAP sensor will read up to 28.6 psi boost, and 3 BAR will read up to 42.9 psi of boost.

One disadvantage of a MAF sensor is that they often are smaller than the rest of the intake pipe between the air box and throttle body, and therefore cause a slight restriction to the air flow. I am lucky in that the one on the S-Coupe Turbo is 70mm (from memory), so offers bugger all restriction - anyone with a SOHC Excel will notice how narrow their MAF is in relation to the piping either side - I think it is arond 40-45mm internal diameter.

MAF tend to offer a better measure of air flow, and can cope better with breathing mods such as aftermarket camshafts and larger throttle bodies, and can more accurately tell the ECU the right air flow to allow it to adjust fuel to keep it all running well.

MAP fitted cars tend to get a little confused with lumpier cams, as the larger pressure waves in the plenum chamber can give constantly varying readings to the ECU.

Why did Hyundai change from MAF to MAP - MAP are generally a lot cheaper than MAF. I priced the MAF on my car a few years ago, and it was around $800. for OEM, so prolly around $500 or so for the same Bosch unit from an EFI parts distributor.. I can pick up a MAP sensor for around A$80-100.

Cheers


Bretton
www.PerformanceStylingCentre.com.au

ps - As far as internals go, the Alpha I and Alpha II are pretty much the same internally, and the Alpha III and Alpha IIII are pretty much identical too - apart from some small changes in part numbers and part specs, the main difference is in the ECU. As better (more complex) ECU's become cheaper, and govermment emissions standard become tighter, the manufacturers are fitting more complex ECU's to reduce emissions and fuel consumption while (hopefully) increasing power and torque.

[Edited by bretton on Oct 2, 2003 5:29 AM]
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Ok... Now my QUESTION???

Im just wondering if the engine hardware in a Hyundai LC Accent 1.5L DOHC is the same as the 98 - 99 Hyundai Excel 1.5L DOHC... For example.. Pistons, Conrods, Cams etc. etc.
 

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I know the pistons have different part numbers, but as the engine in the LC Accent is an evolution of the DOHC engine in the 1998-2000 Excel, the internals will be prettty much the same. Engine capacity is the same, power is pretty much the same, but there may be small changes and refinements in the Accent's engine to make it run better/cleaner/more efficiently.

If you call Hyundai spare parts, you will most likely find that the part numbers are all different, but it is unlikely anyone, even at head office, will be able to tell you the physical or technical differences.

But in reality, as the bore, stroke and capacity are the same, the parts should pretty much be interchangable between the two engines.


Cheers


Bretton
www.PerformanceStylingCentre.com.au
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Phew.. So that means that RPW products or alike can feet in the motor :) IS there any company here in NSW that can get these type of products.. Such as pistons, cams, conrods the works... I know you can Bretton d00d :) Cause i want a company here in NSW so i can purchase the products and meet face to face with the supplier... Caz i wanna feel like a customer and also to be reassured there always their for some assistance and parts :)
 

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dont forget a stronger head gasket qrious if not that is the first thing ur going to blow if your going to go with such a high pressure application. also kinda sux the stagw 2 kit uses rubber hosing for an 8 psi application it suits well but for 14psi i think the rubber will expand under so much pressure and render the whole process useless.
 

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The rpw site kinda scares me ay. saying turbocharging the excel will break mounts, flex pipes, gearbox, clutch over and over again. They say the engine has heaps of weak points whenit comes to turbocharging and the engine is already at its limits internally.
something to think about ay b4 turbocharging ay.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Well... I raelly dont care what they say... As they are a Mitsu based company... They will of course bag out Hyundai more than usual... So i say stuff em! Dont believe a word they say... Any h00... Everything will be sweet soon enough....

Aww and the bad news is.. My mates Accent chopped my car easily... Firstly his car is manual and does way lighter... And is also stock :) Was shocked when i got munched :ermm:
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Well... I raelly dont care what they say... As they are a Mitsu based company... They will of course bag out Hyundai more than usual... So i say stuff em! Dont believe a word they say... Any h00... Everything will be sweet soon enough....

Aww and the bad news is.. My mates Accent chopped my car easily... Firstly his car is manual and does way lighter... And is also stock :) Was shocked when i got munched :ermm:
 

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yeh that'll hurt. and yeh i like your attitude. stuff em your 100% right.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Im always right... Well i hope so...

But seriously, why does everyone bag out Hyundai.. When i really see nothing wrong with em :)

Now... Daewoo is were we gotta start baggin out
 

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If you want to look for what can be done to an Excel, I think the SAS turbo kit is a good place to start. They have been fitting turbos to Excels for 4-5 years now, and if there are problems specific to Hyundais I am sure they will have come accross them before and know how to resolve it or stop it becoming a problem.

A lot of the reliability issues are related to how well the turbo kit is made in the first place, the condition of the engine and car as well as how it is driven.
- If the engine s high mileage to start with, then you are more lkelt to blow it up than with a newer engine thathas been looked after.
- If the engine mounts are old, it may be a good idea to replace them with new ones when fitting the turbo than waiting for them to die at an invonvenient time/place
- If the gearbox is abused, then it will not last - turbo or even plain standard. Ramming the gear lever between gears, no matter what you have done to your engine. Race cars with 'dog boxes' need to be rammed through the gears as they have no synchros - road cars need to be treated with a bit of respect.
- The clutch is like a 'fuse' - when things get to the limit, it is better to have a clutch die than a gearbox - clutches are easier and cheaper to replace
- Flex joints most often die through being hit on things and damaged (speed humps, large rocks,etc) or by too much engine flex resulting from the engine mounts being no good, allowing too much movement in the engine.

Putting a car down the quarter mile will always place a lot more stress on the engine, driveline and chassis than usign the case car to drive on the road day to day. The stresses from high RPM launches from standstill, flat gear changes, burnouts etc will always be greater than with more sedate driving on public roads or even track days.

The same turbo car (or even n/a car) will be less reliable if used on the drag strip often due to the stresses you are putting on your car, and there is no easy way around it. When ever you push your car hard, you have to expect some reliability issues to arise. The same applies wheather you drive a Hyundai, Mitsu, Subaru, Nissan, Mazda, Ford, Holden or G-O G-G-O Mobile.

As for specialist parts like pistons, conrods, etc, no one tends to carry off the shelf parts for Hyundais, however anything can be made up given the right amount of money and time. I have an order form here to be able to get Arias pistons made up to order in the USA. It's a full size A4 page,and probably has 40 different things they need answered - not just a matter of 'what car do you have and how much boost do you want to run' There are also several places in Australia and NZ that can make up pistons and conrods to order - you just need to give them all the correct measurements as to how you want them made and send them some money.

Cheers


Bretton
www.PerformanceStylingCentre.com.au
 

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The S-Coupe (1993-96) has the Alpha I series motor - 1.5 SOHC, MAF equipped, 66kw
The X3 Excel (1994-97) has the Alpha II series motor - 1.5 SOHC, MAF equipped, 65kw
The X3 Excel Twin Cam (1998-2000) has the Alpha III series motor - 1.5 DOHC, MAP equipped, 74kw
The LC Accent (2000-2002) has the Alpha IIII series motor - 1.5 DOHC, MAP equipped, 76kw

MAF = Mass Air Flow
It is a sensor located in a tube, placed between the air box and the thottle body. It measures the amount of air passing through the tube to work out teh volume of air beign sucked in by the engine. The MAF sensor has a length of wire which is heated up by passing a current through it. As air passes over this wire, it cools the wire down, which changes the resistance of the wire. It is this resistance of the wire which the computer reads to allow it to work out how much air the engine is using.

MAP = Mass Air Pressure
The MAP sensor is a small black plastic box attached to the plenum chamber which measures the air pressure in the plenum. When the engine is not running this will measure 14.3 psi (or 1 atmosphere or 1 BAR), being the weight of the air at sea level. When the engine is sucking in air, the plenum chamber will have a slight vaccuum inside it, so the air pressure being read by the MAP sensor will be slightly less than 14.3. The ECU works out the amount of air beint used by comparing the readings from the MAP sensor and the TPS (throttle position sensor).

The standard MAP sensor on a N/A car will only read vaccuum, however for a turbo car a different MAP sensor needs to be used, which can read vaccuum as well as positive pressure. Often you will hear of people referring to a 2 Bar or 3 Bar MAP sensor on a turbo car. The 2 Bar MAP sensor will read up to 28.6 psi boost, and 3 BAR will read up to 42.9 psi of boost.

One disadvantage of a MAF sensor is that they often are smaller than the rest of the intake pipe between the air box and throttle body, and therefore cause a slight restriction to the air flow. I am lucky in that the one on the S-Coupe Turbo is 70mm (from memory), so offers bugger all restriction - anyone with a SOHC Excel will notice how narrow their MAF is in relation to the piping either side - I think it is arond 40-45mm internal diameter.

MAF tend to offer a better measure of air flow, and can cope better with breathing mods such as aftermarket camshafts and larger throttle bodies, and can more accurately tell the ECU the right air flow to allow it to adjust fuel to keep it all running well.

MAP fitted cars tend to get a little confused with lumpier cams, as the larger pressure waves in the plenum chamber can give constantly varying readings to the ECU.

Why did Hyundai change from MAF to MAP - MAP are generally a lot cheaper than MAF. I priced the MAF on my car a few years ago, and it was around $800. for OEM, so prolly around $500 or so for the same Bosch unit from an EFI parts distributor.. I can pick up a MAP sensor for around A$80-100.

Cheers


Bretton
www.PerformanceStylingCentre.com.au

ps - As far as internals go, the Alpha I and Alpha II are pretty much the same internally, and the Alpha III and Alpha IIII are pretty much identical too - apart from some small changes in part numbers and part specs, the main difference is in the ECU. As better (more complex) ECU's become cheaper, and govermment emissions standard become tighter, the manufacturers are fitting more complex ECU's to reduce emissions and fuel consumption while (hopefully) increasing power and torque.

[Edited by bretton on Oct 2, 2003 5:29 AM]
Hi Brett on i have a question but its got nothing to do with the post but im trying to find a headlight and indicator housings for my 1999 excel dohc and having no luck is there any other model that have the same ones i could use instead of finding my specific cars one lol
 
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