Hyundai Forum: Hyundai Performance Forum banner

21 - 40 of 41 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,256 Posts
Asian_907 said:
Uhm...

It's actually really true. Stock for stock, an automatic will hold more horsepower and torque, and they're more reliable if maintained. I know through experience that an automatic can, and will beat a manual with the same engine mods but it will need some work like a aftermarket shift kit, a high stall torque converter and a tranmission fluid cooler.

Pure performance wise, how can you compare against a computer controled shift poitns compared to a human controled shift points? All the shifting will be done exact and crisper than any human can do. Drag cars are automatic as well as a lot of muslce cars. Just because high school kids think manuals are better doesn't mean that they are.

Howie~

P.S. Brake boosting on any turbocharged auto KILLS a manual dump ANYday. Less damage on the engine and clutch too!y
This is largely true for drag-specific cars though; some of the quickest cars down the quarter mile are indeed auto's, and with the afore-mentioned modifications the auto transmission is a very big advantage, so much so that it's close to impossible to get past[unles your name happens to be John Bresciani, who puts together said auto-shifted monsters]

Circuit wise its very different of course, but thats ot what is under discussion here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
687 Posts
Oh...

Circuit racing has always been dominated by manuals, but autos have held their own on a lot of tracks. Manuals are good when there is a lot of play with the transmissions in order to keep the powerband optimal. A couple Audi Lemans winners were autos, but they had the Tiptronic option to downshift.

Howie~
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
45 Posts
A stock auto transmission does and can hold more power. I am nearly 300whp and my auto is completely stock. A std transmission would have had to at least upgrade the clutch to handle that. I run a 13.24 in the 1/4 mile with my auto tib. Hopefully faster than that this year.

never neutral drop your auto, anyone that tells you to do that is 1. a ricer idiot and 2. knows nothing about cars or racing what so ever.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,787 Posts
yeah i agree about autos shifting better but i say again you get more outta the car with a manual. No autos dont hold more power stock for stock thats bs for sure. A stock accent auto vs std is NOT more powerfull , again gearing my be different and for sure the shifting is smoother but a std tranny can and will hold more. Look up all the performance parts shops online they all have turbo kits for autos and std trannies. The std hp out puts for those kits are more than the autos, std is lighter and so what about the clutch, its a lot cheeper to upgrade a clutch than it is to biuld an auto tranny. DAMN a 300 whp Auto Tibby? thats crazy that would be better. A drag car for sure needs to be auto to shift and maintain power. autox and even amitur rally a manuel is best...unless you have a tiptronic auto...those are better for that. Its hard to say. This day and age Autos are getting so much better than std. My moms Z4 is the 6 speed auto with tiptronic paddle shifters. HUGE difference between that and a M3. Her car smokes 'em every time. It just is a matter of opinion i guess. Std is more fun but depending on the car and what you plan to do with it, its all up in the air.

Oh yeah you acctully need SKILL to drive a manual. Any pro driver who uses a manel is abetter driver than those with the autos...again, its just more fun beacause its you driving it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,256 Posts
Generally those are boes with straight-cut gearsets and dog engagement; match those things up with launch control and gearchange ignition-cut, and you have the ultimate launch:

-Preset revlimit[just hold the right pedal down]
-Just dump the clutch and let the slip sensors and ignition retard handle the traction issues
-Bang through the gears while the throttle is flat down without using the clutch; each change, the full-throttle shift will sense movement at the stick and cut ignition timing to unload the dogs

Then the only issue becomes how to stop. :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,145 Posts
Manual LC2 Accent will beat the following automatic equipped bone stock (unless noted otherwise) Hyundai cars:

Accent
Elantra
Tiburon 2.0l
Tiburon 2.7l* I had I/H/E for this race
Sonata 2.4l

However equip all the cars with manuals and the Accent is the slowest of the pack. I have raced enough other Hyundais now to say that the only way you are faster in an automatic of any of these cars is with extensive modifications. The only one that even held it's own was the V6 Tib. Stock Hyundai's automatics are power hogs and there's not enough power to get enough benefit from the performance advantages an automatic offers to overcome the additional parasitic loss the automatic causes.

Plus, unexpected gear changes in the middle of a corner when you're pushing things are not your friend. Especially if you happen to be RWD, but no matter what they're not your friend.

I am a fan of automatic transmissions when used in drag applications and/or in cars with less than about 12 pounds per horsepower. Get under 10 pounds per horsepower and it becomes almost impossible to beat an automatic with a manual no matter how good you are at driving.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,080 Posts
187sks said:
Manual LC2 Accent will beat the following automatic equipped bone stock (unless noted otherwise) Hyundai cars:

Accent
Elantra
Tiburon 2.0l
Tiburon 2.7l* I had I/H/E for this race
Sonata 2.4l
that all depends on the distance you're racing i think...

i can beet a lot of cars up until i hit about 40 and then i get eaten alive
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,145 Posts
Lets see...

An auto Accent will never catch up ever.

An auto Elantra is still behind me at 75, but I've never gone for longer. There was no indication of it catching up though.

Never raced an auto Tiburon 2.0 to above 40 but since it's heavier than the Elantra with the same engine I can't see it catching up.

The Auto Tiburon V6 was a race to about 50 but I was certainly not "dusting" him. I don't know if he would have caught up, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if he did.

I've raced 2 Sonata 2.4l, an old Sirius equipped one and a new Theta equipped one. The older one was really, really slow. The newer one was just kind of slow. Both races were to about 45. The newer Sonata may have been able to catch up given enough road.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
687 Posts
fintile said:
yeah i agree about autos shifting better but i say again you get more outta the car with a manual. No autos dont hold more power stock for stock thats bs for sure. A stock accent auto vs std is NOT more powerfull , again gearing my be different and for sure the shifting is smoother but a std tranny can and will hold more. Look up all the performance parts shops online they all have turbo kits for autos and std trannies. The std hp out puts for those kits are more than the autos, std is lighter and so what about the clutch, its a lot cheeper to upgrade a clutch than it is to biuld an auto tranny. DAMN a 300 whp Auto Tibby? thats crazy that would be better. A drag car for sure needs to be auto to shift and maintain power. autox and even amitur rally a manuel is best...unless you have a tiptronic auto...those are better for that. Its hard to say. This day and age Autos are getting so much better than std. My moms Z4 is the 6 speed auto with tiptronic paddle shifters. HUGE difference between that and a M3. Her car smokes 'em every time. It just is a matter of opinion i guess. Std is more fun but depending on the car and what you plan to do with it, its all up in the air.
Well, It is true that automatic transmissions are stronger than standard transmissions. They can hold more power stock for stock than manuals. The Ford transmissions for the auto V6 Mustang can hold 300 hp max while the standard is only rated for 275. The Mitsubishi Eclipse tranmsission can hold 350 max auto while the standard is onyl rated for 315. These are noly a couple of examples though. I can give you direct tranny numbers if you really want them xP

Stock for stock though, a standard will beat the auto because automatics aren't geared for racing. They're geared to be smooth shifting and somehwat more gas efficient. With a little modification though, they do very well in straight lines. Track use is a tottally different issue.

If you're debating on buffing up your auto transmsision, think about installing a shift kit, a high stall torque converter, a tranmission fluid cooler and upgraded syncros. I persoanlly wouldn't go over 3200 stall because if it's your daily driver, you'll be annoyed with it. I think Level 10 transmissions will do a performance rebuild for hyundais, but I dont know if they still do them.

Howie~
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
hmm ill have to check on this stuff sorta of get a price estimate. ill check on that rebuild to if i do anything serious ill post pics and crap! might do a swap to idk yet! just sorta working with the 1.6l lc
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
687 Posts
Well,

What I know from right at this point, you can use the DSM shift kit on the KM177 tranmissions because they're almost identical. With very minor modifications, you can make it happen. I can't find a high stall torque converter or a shift kit especially for an LC.

Howie~
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
so any other way i can make it happen just need some mods going got ya! and by the way who ever posted hold on the brake then rev to about 2-3,000 rpms thanx i spanked on a manual teg yesterday.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
wth is going on i got beat by a honda ricer today how humiliating. i mean when i first tried i had him off the line and then on but when were rolling at like 35mph his manual outbeats me and i cant catch up at all? i tried the hole hold your break in i think i need to new tires any suggestions to good tires for a 1.6l lc for launching?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
I was reading this post and i was feeling lazy until i read that bringing the revs up in park or neutral with a automatic transmission and slamming it into drive will give you a better launch!?!?!?! LOL The only thing your going to get out of that is a annihilated automatic transmission. I have a friend that has a piece of **** volvo wagon in which is automatic, and we were driving down my block and he said LETS SPIN THE TIRES!!!! HE PUTS INTO PARK AND FLATTENS IT AND THEN DROPS IT INTO DRIVE.... BANG BANG...SCREECH SMOKE EVERYWHERE, I SAID WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING HE SAID A BURNOUT, AT THIS POINT I HAD NO WORDS TO EVEN SAY ABOUT HOW DESTRUCTIVE THAT IS TO HIS TRANSMISSION, LONG STORY SHORT THAT WAS THE LAST ONE TWO TRANSMISSION COMBO. to respond to the comment about Hyundai automatic transmissions being great well then i think you should come back down to earth, because they might possibly be the worst engineered drivetrain product i have ever seen. I know i have a 01 1.6 accent and it has automatic that had been replaced and it still is a piece of **** and it shifts when ever it feels like it! i want to swap if for a manual but its a lot of work. my conclusion is that Hyundai engine displacement especially the accent cant contend with the reduced gear ratio of the automatic transmission which yields to so many problems:mad::( honestly i cant comment for the 2 liters but maybe its better but like they say the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. Hyundai needs to GREATLY rethink their strategy with a/t cars because they SUCK, jealous of m/t guys. Thanks for listening.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
neutral drop is not good. my brother blew up my older brothers tranny on their 4 banger camry with the neutral drop. the best way for me is put a lot of power in it so that way all you got to do is control the gas pedal like i do on my sc300 and it was a lot better than the neutral drop. no peel outs just pure acceleration. with a good amount of power you don't really need to do neutral drops. because control your gas pedaling is a lot better on the long end. the short end on neutral drop is that it makes you faster on low HP cars. when you have too much HP than your car just won't go unless you might want to change to slicks. other than that more power will fix the problem and gassing it through is already the best and long solution.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
69 Posts
Anyone have anything to say about the manual shift gate on an auto Tibby?

I would think I should be able to make something happen with it with a K&N intake so far, and what would a shift kit and/or torque converter do for me?
 
21 - 40 of 41 Posts
Top