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Discussion Starter #61
Originally posted by CROOOL_LANTRA
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Exhaust cam?
I thaught this whole discussion was about the intake cam :puzzled:
I think im missing somthing :hmmm:
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If you have a 2.0L Beta1, you want to swap in either the 1.8 or XD intake cam. However, if you have a Beta2, you want to swap in a Beta1 exhaust cam. The Beta1 exhaust cam has more lift and duration than the Beta2 exhaust cam.
 

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[body][/If you have a 2.0L Beta1, you want to swap in either the 1.8 or XD intake cam. However, if you have a Beta2, you want to swap in a Beta1 exhaust cam. The Beta1 exhaust cam has more lift and duration than the Beta2 exhaust cam.

body]
Just wondered why you would recomend using hyd. cams with solid lifters, and solid cams with hyd. lifters? What would you propose to do about the hyd. lash adjustment, verses the quietening ramp of the solid lifter profile? The hyd. cam may work OK on the solid lifters, as long as you are able to set lash, or you may experience rapid wear, but as far as the hyd. lifters on the solid cam, good luck.

[Edited by turboshadow on Dec 31, 2004 5:39 PM]
 

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Discussion Starter #64
If you look at the cams side by side, Hyundai didn't change the ramp of the cam. When most manufactureres switch to solid lifters, they change the cam to use a smaller base circle and a steeper ramp. This allows the cam to weigh less. However, Hyundai did not do this. The base circles are the same and the ramp is almost the same (less than .4 mm more lift). Hyundai only went to solid lifters because they were having many warranty claims for hydraulic lifters due to the 100,000 mile warranty. The hydraulic lifters aren't as durable. If you scan through this site, you'll see many people asking if the clicking noise under the hood is normal. This clicking is caused by the seals in the hydraulic lifters starting to leak. Now, if people have noisy lifters, Hyundai can blame "lack of proper maintainence" due to the fact that most people with newer car don't even know that a regular valve adjustment is normal, nevermind actually getting it done.
 

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The ramp of the cam is not something you can see with your eye, nor is it easily measurable with hand tools(degree wheel, and dial indicator). It is, in many cases pretty subtle, but nontheless important. Some of the early hyd. /mechanical profiles were pretty obviously different, but no so much today. Still, its not really a good idea to be switching back and forth., and both for differing reasons.
 

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Discussion Starter #66
It's simple geometry..... If the base circles are the same and the max height of the lobe is 0.4mm larger, the ramp isn't much steeper. It's not steep enough to cause a problem. The Cat-Cams I'm running in my car are much steeper and I have hydraulic lifters. I understand what you're saying, and you're correct that as a general rule you don't want to run a solid lifter cam with hydraulic lifters. However, in this particular application, there's not a problem.
 

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I hate to sound like I'm looking for a fight, because I'm not. I came here looking for some info, and got it, but also found some interesting stuff as well. I raced Hyundai's in the 90's, and got pretty regularly criticized, but did well nontheless.
You say its simple geopmetry, but if its anything, its not simple. The opening and closing ramps are, for the most part symmetrical on the DA style cams, but are definitely not even close to being straight, or simple. The ramps are designed for a reason, and can cause all kinds of interesting problems when used in the wrong situation. Look at the lobes on your cams, and look at the arc in the ramps. Measuring those even with decent equipment is not that simple, not to mention the quietining ramps on the solid lifter profiles which would make it appear that the lobe/base circle is something other than concentric.
If you have degreed as many cams as I have, you would realize that they are anything but simple. I realize that I'm a newby, so I should mind my P's, and Q's, but I'm only trying to help :)

[Edited by turboshadow on Jan 6, 2005 3:52 PM]
 

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Discussion Starter #68
I know you're just trying to help. I'm just trying to point out that I'm not talking about all hydraulic cams vs. all solid lifter cams. I'm only talking about these three particular cam sets. If you know much about Hyundai, you know they sell their cars for cheap because there's not a lot of high tech parts, R&D, or expensive materials (aluminum, magnesium, etc...). Hyundai didn't radically change the cam when they went to solid lifters. The cam is only slightly different.


BTW, don't worry about being a newbie. This isn't a place (unlike some boards) where people get banned for debating with Mods or Admins, unless name calling ensues.
 

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As posted in the Elantra section, I am going to attempt the 1.8L ex cam into the XD swap, in reality this should yeild some gains, minimal yes but some still. I will be sure to keep yous posted with results as to what I feel, or worse case scenario, my engine dies!
 

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Originally posted by MechaniX_034
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Get a degreeing wheel and a micrometer, and you'll see some pretty subtle diferences.:lol:
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On the page shop sell a pair of cams that are 274 degrees and a pair of 264 degrees,butt I have a Elantra GLS 1997 (it has hi compresion pistons)and i will want to know which one will be better to buy. And if will need to modify the computer. ;):
 

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For a n/a tune on my Elantra GLS 1997 1.8L which I will do better change it to 2.0L and let the 1.8L cams or change the cams and let it 1.8L engine. Please tell me. And if it is good to advance the motor and how many degrees with the sproket.;):
 

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I have a 2000 elantra coming up on time to replace t belt. I am gonna do the cam swap too is it worth it to put adjustable gears on or is that a waste of money. Thanks :??:
 

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Ok to put the 1.8 exhaust cam to rest...I have a 2002 Elantra GT with of course the Beta II engine, I thought that the 1.8 exhaust cam with more lift and duration would be great for my car. Well the car did react well to it near the top of my power band, but it sounded terrible. Why did it sound terrible Donnie? Well let me tell you, the Beta II uses mechanical lifters, or shim over bucket as opposed to hydraulic lifters which the Beta I uses. Once the cam was installed and the tolerances were meaured and shimmed to specs, I turned cmy car on. TICK TICK TICK TICK TICK TICK!!!!!! This I though may have been from my cam timing being off a little, so I checked, no not that it was fine. After a little research I discovered that I installed a hydraulic cam. So I made some calls to a local machine/performance shop and it was confirmed that I shouldnt use hyd. cams with solid lifters...They gave me a bunch of technical reasons but said that there is no quieting ramp on hyd. cams. As I have read there is an ongoing argument about if the cam can be used or not, yes it can but I noticed wear even after a week of running on my shims. If you feel like using the 1.8 cam in your Beta II than expect to re-shim your engine all the time and deal with loud TICK that can be heard from your seat.
 

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Discussion Starter #75
If it was too noisy for you, you could just get a set of hydraulic lifters for the exhaust side. You'd need 8 at about $11 each. They are the same height and diameter as the solid lifters and drop right in. The only thing you need to remove to install them is the exhaust cam. My car has 20,000 miles and hydraulic lifters and it has ticked loudly since about 10,000 miles. The hydraulic cams don't have a quieting ramp, so they tick. Even with the hydraulic lifters.
 

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[body]The hydraulic cams don't have a quieting ramp, so they tick. Even with the hydraulic lifters.


[/body]
Thats just stupid.
I sincerely hope people don't follow your advice, because it becomes more evident with each post that you have no idea what you are talking about.

[Edited by turboshadow on Feb 15, 2005 5:13 PM]
 

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Discussion Starter #79
Originally posted by turboshadow
[body]
[body]The hydraulic cams don't have a quieting ramp, so they tick. Even with the hydraulic lifters.


[/body]
Thats just stupid.
I sincerely hope people don't follow your advice, because it becomes more evident with each post that you have no idea what you are talking about.
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Do a search here. All Hyundai's with hydraulic lifters tick. Why do you think Hyundai switched from maintainence free hydraulic lifters to solid lifters that require adjustment? It's because Hyundai got tired of paying for warranty claims from people bringing their cars in for "loud ticking". I don't know if it's poor cam design or crappy lifters, but they all tick, some louder than others. As for me not knowing what I'm talking about..... nobody's forcing you to take my advice. However, there are more than a few 500+ whp car owners in Vegas that are happy with my knowledge.
 

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[body]The hydraulic cams don't have a quieting ramp, so they tick. [/body]
[body]I don't know if it's poor cam design or crappy lifters,[/body]
So...... you know......, or you don't? Quitening ramp, cam design, or crappy lifters? First you know, then you don't.
My guess is that you have no idea what you are talking about.

[Edited by turboshadow on Feb 19, 2005 5:50 PM]
 
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