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I thaught Bosch Motronic is common in VW, Audi, and Subaru. On Tuner Transformation on Speed ( the VW GTI episode) the VW expert came in and plugged a lap top into the stock ECU and tuned the car after the mods were done. Also In the SCC article for the 1.6 purple Sentra the Nissan expert reprogramed the Stock ECU to relate to the mods and got 10 hp. Hence shouldn't it be just that easy rather than disasembling the ECU F%&&**ing all up and praying it will work again?
 

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Discussion Starter #22
Badbrown,

The D.I.Y. is simply to access your ECU's eeprom(s) and NOTHING more. And I DID cover that FULLY. The rest is suggestive as far as where to go from there.

I hate to suggest this, but I don't think you retained all the info stated.

start-from-scratch mode is not a concept, but an easy out for people tired of having to reset they're computers all the time. it is an alternative.

Second alternative opposing having to fork out $$ every time you want to tune your ECU is buying a eeprom burner kit, and mapping it yourself when you feel the need. BTW, a remap software that will work with any computer burning kit is here
http://www.auto-tecno.com/Remap_eng.html

Third alternative is buying an interface, and I believe I clearly stated several times that this computer is common, so you missed that one as well. Yes, it sure is easy to plug-n-tune.. it's also EXPENSIVE.

This writeup was on dissasembly of the bosch motronic obd1 ecu. Just because I threw in a few suggestions on where to go from there does not make it incomplete.

Thank you for your comments.

- Matt
 

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Discussion Starter #23
Arsen,

If you are looking at a 14 pin chip, your looking at the wrong chip. you have 14 pins PER SIDE. you need a 28 pin capable burner.. wich is??? EVERYWHERE. ;)

- Matt
 

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Discussion Starter #24
Rab,

It really isn't that bad. You buy the kit you like for the price. Hook it up to your PC as per included instructions.. then you load a software to control it. It should come with software, but it will be limited. thats why a software like Remap3000 comes into play. Load up remap, and IT will control the burner. Remap will download the hexcode from the eeprom plugged ibnto the burner, decrypt it, and put it into a map interface. Then you want to back it up using a simple menu backup function.. so if you goof, you can "restore" the eeprom from a backup file. see? easier then thought. the only tricky part is knowing what to change and why. Thats where "homework" comes into play. If you find a good map software (ie. remap300, etc) most all of it will be plotted for you, boost, fuel, etc..

You make your changes, burn them, and go try them. If you made a mistake, pop the chip back in the burner and restore it from the OEM backup. Nothing lost. You can reburn your eeproms over-and-over-and-over again.

Don't be skierd... ;)

- Matt

[Edited by SupaCoupa on Nov 23, 2004 9:18 AM]
 

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Discussion Starter #25
Sorry for bloating this, just trying to respond one at a time.

Geo97accent,

Well, the writeup here is for dissasembly of the obd1 bosch motronic. You'll have to be the guy that helps the obd2 guys rip thiers apart ;) I read somewhere that the obd2 bosch code is a little tricky to break, but a good software aid should eliminate that problem. Sorry to be so biased, but the bosch obd1 is what *I* personally posess. SO I am just relaying as I go on my stuff. it just so happens to apply to a lot of other vehicles.

Nick,

The problem is the map sensor on the firewall in the engine compartment. We have 2 barametric pressure sensors, and more then 2 features that use them. So what is split up where? thats why I am afraid to make a statement on the port. it *may* not only control boost spike. Because wire lengths affect overall resistance of the circuit they may have decided to place the sensor inside the ECU (closets to ECU) because they needed the accuracy factor tight for not only the spike protection, but the boost controller as well. Perhaps all the map on the firewall does is read for the boost lights. There is just too much to kick about to make a bold and definitive statement as to it's exact designated responsibilities.

I would like to assume that the ONLY thing the map on the firewall does is take the measurment for our boost lights. As this computer is built and stuffed into a BUNCH of turbo cars without the pretty little lights. Therefor the sensor on the ECU gathers pressure information for the ecu to evaluate for boost spike, positive barametric pressure that will adjust fuel and timing as well. I think hyundai had to add the external map because they saw no way to get that information out of the ecu built in sensor.

Using logic now, I think it is safer to say that the onboard is responsible for everything but the dash lights.

- Matt

[Edited by SupaCoupa on Nov 23, 2004 9:45 AM]
 

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Thanks for the info Soupa, I still don't think I oculd do it. I can't even tune with my damn safc. Not to mention getting the ECU out/in the Accent is a real biatch. but seriously, I don't know how to make fuel maps/timing maps etc... What I'd real like to do is lose the fuel cutoff, and raise the revlimiter a tad. Not to mention make the thing accept 36lb injectors... So it wouldnt eun pig rich at idle... The safc wouldnt tune it down... But that's another thread...

Thanks
Rob
 

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Discussion Starter #29
Nick,

That link gave me warm tingly feelings all over. reading it, It clearly suggests in more then one way that the Hi-Scan PRO can and will reflash (burn) the EPROMS... at least in the obd2 ECU's - UNFORTUNATLY, it is a slave to the software update you chose. We still don't know if it will map and allow you to tune out things at our discretion. But it is a positive sign! It means that there are tx/rx line in/out of the ecu's hardware for data burns!

Now what we need is the data bus lines the tool uses and they're function to adapt our own ecu/pc interface and we can start hacking.

I don't suppose anyone has found a pin out for the obd1 + 2 ecu's? If we can get those, we are only a cheap cable interface and a program away.

- Matt

[Edited by SupaCoupa on Nov 24, 2004 9:14 AM]
 

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Originally posted by SupaCoupa
[body]
I don't suppose anyone has found a pin out for the obd1 + 2 ecu's? If we can get those, we are only a cheap cable interface and a program away.
[/body]
pin out meaning a diagram that references each pins function to the engines wire harness? or pin out that references to the HI-SCAN tool's port?

the technology and terminology in all this is past my knowledge, but i am with you all with the concepts. its something i have thought about for a while but unfortunately i am not into source code at all.

if you let me know exactly what pin out you need i will do my DAMNDEST to find it for you asap. and if you can eventually provide software and a data cable for me to tune my scoupe turbo via laptop and serial/USB port i will gladly pay you for a package like this, as would damn near every OBD1 tuner on this board i am sure.

way to go supa, dont give up yet you and the others have come too far youre only a hop skip and jump away from producing a product that has a HUGE market to us all. reap your rewards. :chinese:
 

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OMG I'm SOOOO DUMB, I can't beleive that I didn't count both sides

Oh and the back side of the plug for the Hi Scan hook up is only 3 wires I think, I'm not sure you could program with 3 wires.

[Edited by arsen1k on Nov 24, 2004 5:56 PM]
 

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I have a oin-out for my ecu, and it is even accurate. If someone wants it I can email it to them.;):

Rob
ra[email protected]
 

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ECU blah blah blah
blah blah ECU blah
blah ECU blah blah
I want to know where is Silky’s!

JK, excellent write-up. There is an excellent book out there "Hacking the X-box". Don't let the name fool you! It's more than just changing an led. It truly teaches some fundamentals on reverse engineering. On page 90 is how to snarf a ROM.http://hackingthexbox.com/
The book is excellent and reads more like a mystery novel than a tech book.
Anyway Happy Hacking. I'll be starting on this as soon as I return from Germany. Maybe I should look-up some of those engineers while I am there.;):
 

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Matt, this thread from a Subaru Imprezza forum throws a LITTLE optimistic light on re-flashing OBD1 ECU`s (as opposed to OBD2) :-
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=520774&goto=nextoldest

More Hi-Scan Pro info. :-
http://www.nex-tek.com/english/product/hiscanpro/hyundai/vehiclekit.html

More from Webtech, but with photo`s :-
http://www.hmaservice.com/recent/7/04-36-0041/04-36-004.pdf

Programming Equipment :-
http://www.giwasa.com/electroniques/logiciels_gb.htm
http://www.ecu-blaster.com/17671/index.html


I hope some of this research helps!
Nick.:)

[Edited by VALKYRIE YB70 on Nov 27, 2004 7:33 AM]
 

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Originally posted by SupaCoupa
[body]
It is no great wonder, taking these things into consideration that resetting your ecu, therefore putting the ecu into start-from-scratch mode; will allow you to realize the performance gains of your bolt on parts. Unfortunately the one thing a reset won’t do is eliminate the set parameters in the watchdog system and eventually the ecu will compare and tune as necessary to meet the stock parameters once again (yes, I am sighing right along with you right now) Can anything be done? YES!
[/body]
If true, this is the most depressing thing I've read since I found out over 50% of the people voted for bush.

That basically means that my modifications are competely futile and useless after a few days of use and I'll be running almost at stock by then. Then what is the point of doing these mods if you have to keep reseting the ecu? I did the bolt on mods because of the lower prices and to spend hundreds to get a reprogrammed ecu is kinda disheartning. This whole time I thought that (from reading this forum and several others) the ecu would gradually learn the new settings and keep it that way unless you changed your driving style.

I guess I'm gonna have to start saving then eh? :(
 

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Quote by Crool Lantra yesterday (in the N/A. Forum) :-

"I pulled out my remmaped ecu once and it seems they have cut out the foamy stuff that covers this one chip, and removed a 1"x1" chip and replaced it with another. Apparently the one thats in there as oem is not writable".

I wonder, because given the correct password & software, the Dealership`s Hi-Scan tool can re-write to the ECU :-
http://www.hmaservice.com/recent/7/04-36-0041/04-36-004.pdf

Nick.


:puzzled:
 

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Discussion Starter #38
Nick,

Of course it can. it is just a eeprom memory chip, it is made to be burned. The only question is will it be allowed to write mode within the ecu housing, or does it need to be written externally?

From what I gather, if hyundai can plug-n-play burn it on the fly, it can be rewritten internally, as well as externally. What that user saw was NOT his EEPROM, unless his eeprom is using a different topology, thus insinuating it is not the obd1 being discussed here. Some memory is 1x1" flash ram, however, NOT in our ecu's as clearly seen by the pictures.

JohnDoe641,

I "suspect" this is why this post isn't gonna be a stickey anytime soon. HP.COM *sells* bolt on parts, but has little or no insight into what is necessary for the hyundai obd1 ecu to accept them properly. THis puts them in a position if you think about it. Several actually. I don't know why this post hasn't dissapeared alltogether because of it. Perhaps they are truely honoring free speech no matter how it makes anyone look. And that is good in my eyes. I just again "suspect" they are not anxious to headline this post anytime soon.

I want everyone to understand further how this works. Any computer system has volatile and non-volatile memory. The base factory settings are stored in non-volatile memory (eeproms) and they keep these settings no matter how many time you disconnect the power. The volitile memory is memory that will release anything contained in it when power is interupted. The volatile memory in your obd1 ecu stores the adjusted operating parameters for the watchdog system, cel codes, etc. When you reset your ecu and reboot it (connect constant power to it once again) any adjusted parameters int he watchdog system or any cel's dissapear. But the parameters in the non-volatile memory (eeprom, factory parameter settings) remain intact.

This is why no matter how hard you try, the nightmare will begin all over again. The ecu will in time compare the actual operating parameters to the factory preferred settings and note any necessary adjustments in the volatile memory. From an engineering standpoint this was the best way to design the system because you need an easy way to clear codes and reset the ecu after a faulty part has been replaced. You need to rewrite the non-volatile memory (eeprom) to your tailored needs to ever make it fully go away. While your in there it certainly wouldn't hurt to adjust the maps to your liking.

OR, you can go the cheapy route and do the hardwire to a constantly resetting ecu to keep it at base parameters. The downside is you can't performance tune your vehicle this way. BUT keeping your ecu at base parameters will allow your bolt on's to "build" HP from that base point, instead of being tuned out to the factory "proposed" base operating parameters.

WHEW!

- Matt
 

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Discussion Starter #39
Bump...

If there are no more room for stickeys around here, how about bringing back the tech board link so useful information and DIY stuff can be collected there?

Whats going on around here?
 

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Just in case you'd like to know:

I've been to our local chip tuner http://www.rsrmotorsport.com/ to have the ECU checked out to see what can be done with it. The guy said it's exactly the same ECU as Audi S2 and S4 used and he can remap anything my heart desires. The only thing that has to be replaced is the MAP sensor inside the ECU as it can only see 1 bar. He has a 2 bar replacement for €100. We've made a deal for tuning with wideband lambda probe and he will adjust boost, throttle/wastgate corelation, timing, fueling, everything on the dynamometer of course.

So thats good news, the ECU can be programed no problem at all.
 
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