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Discussion Starter #1
rather odd topic but i'm just interested in the Hachi roku and i wanted to know what the gap between the japanese and the korean's are in term's of engine design and sophistication.

what are the difference between a 4ag and a g4ed..i know there are many other motor's but i'm just comparing...they're both 16 Litre's..both have DOHC

anyone help me?
 

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Um. For a bit of the 4ag engine, try looking at http://www.club4ag.com/? I think the hyundai webtech might get you someof the bore and stroke info for the g4ed?

Wasn't there also the beta 1.6 at one point?
Anyhow, one of the diferences is probably shims versus HLA, dry sump versus non dry sump. ...I'd think?

Heh. I wonder how the Alpha and beta 1.6's differ too. o_O
 

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yes there was a 1.6... my buddy had it in his 02 accent.. for a little car.. the engine w/ the right tuning was evil
 

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the difference is about 40 horsepower... ;)
yes, there is a 1.6l beta engine.
used in hyundai matrix, designed by pininfaria
 

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Ya the 1.6 beta is popular in countries in Europe etc where they have those horsepower taxes or whatever they're called. They're in Elantras and Tibs in some places.
 

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U.K. 1.6 Coupe`s (Tibs.) are powered by 1.6 DOHC Alphas OR 1.6 Betas depending on year.........some years are mixed!!.

All versions of the 1.6 model are very under-powered due to the weight of all 3 generations of the car.

Nick.
 

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i wasnt aware of a 4AGEU. do you mean the 4AGZE? if you go with the 4A, spend the extra money and get the 20 valve with the ITB's
 

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The quads for the 4A-GE 20V are pretty costly, and you'd need to get extra trumpets to get the setup right[we recently had an expreience with a 20V with long trumpets, and it wasn't fun trying to dial in the cams and the tune when they just weren't freakin big enough. :eek: We never really got there, but it would propably have peaked at well past 9,500RPM

You need time and money to set the quads up right, not to mention a computer that will handle it; better to go with a plenium setup if you don't want to muck around with it as much, and cam around that.

[Edited by MechaniX_034 on Dec 17, 2005 9:34 PM]
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I'd do anything to get quad s for the 1.6L G4ed...anything:ermm:
 

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mechanix what are you talking about maeng? you can get a 4AGE 20v for like 400-900 bucks in the usa, thats complete with throttlebodies and everything. i have one sitting at my moms house waiting to go into my MGB sometime this lifetime.


and running quads on an accent would be pretty easy. gsxr1000 throttle bodies + megasquirt 2 and ford EDIS ignition = win. the alpha motor already comes with a 2 piece intake manifold, which means all you have to do is cut the part of the upper intake manifold off right after the bolts and use some silicone coupler (ala home depot racing) to put the throttle bodies on there. im sure someone has done it... we did pretty much the same thing to my friend EG hatch with d16y8.

[Edited by Pussykatt on Dec 19, 2005 12:07 AM]
 

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I'm talking about buying off-the-shelf quads, not getting gixxer parts and then doing some aluminium MIG welding to mate them to the stock inlet flange. The engine itself is of course fairly affordable, but the tuning parts to make big power, holy crap. BTW, I'm not talking 250-290bhp, I'm talking much more.
 

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but... gixxer parts are so cheap! and megasquirt isnt that expensive, and i have seen some big power setups on that. and you mean those formula toyota 4age's dont you. those bad boys are sick. just sick
 

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Well, it desn't necessarily have to be a Formula Atlantic engine that you're building, but using say, the Tomei parts and setting up accessories does get the job done very well. However, in the end it comes down to the skills of the individual tuner. I don't see anything wrong with using the Gixxer parts, but when going for the best results, sometimes having the best parts can be a boon, but don't overestimate brand-name products. We have found fundamental weakneses in very high-end products, ie. Greddy's pleniums for RB25; this part does not flow well in the last cylinder. Also, HKS turbo manifolds, the material on these is not as good as you might think, and the design is also one that has several key weak points.
 

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Sorry, I don't have much knowledge of the G4ED (more like... none) but if you wanted some info on the 4AG I have plenty.

There were 4.5 generations of the 4AGE engine coming in NA and supercharged.

1: Known as the Bluetop, came in the AE86 chassis, AW11 MR2 and AE82 FX-16.
-Weaker 3-rib block
-Smaller crank bearings, smaller wrist pins, thinner rods, just generally lighter and weaker.
-9.4:1 compression
-Because of it's lighter bottom end, it's VERY rev happy and throttle response is fantastic. This is why the 4AG became so popular. About 115hp for AFM versions (north america), and about 128 for map sensored versions. (japan)
-Earlier models came with a 200mm flywheel. Some came with 212mm flywheel. (but only in FWD transaxles)
-Included T-VIS (Toyota Variable Induction System) which would close off half of the intake ports to increase intake velocity (and low end torque) below 4000 rpm.

1.5: Known as the Bastard engine, Redtop bigport, or 7-rib bigport, Late Bluetop
-This motor is the transitional motor between the bigport and smallport motors.
-Strong 7-rib block, thicker rods, crank and pins. Not as rev happy but very strong
-Maintained the 9.4:1 compression
-Maintained the T-VIS system
-With this bastard engine came the supercharged 4AGZE. It needed the stronger internals to handle the boost. The 4AGZE variant came with 8.0:1 pistons. Found in the AW11 MR2 and made about 140hp.

2: Known as the Smallport engine or Redtop Engine. Found in the AE92 chassis.
-This motor had the stronger block, crank, rods, and pins
-Added oil squirters into the block that blasted oil onto the underside of the pistons to keep them cooler.
-Compression raised to 10.3:1
-Made about 130hp here (using Air Flow Meter) and 140hp in Japan (using MAP)
-Head was redesigned. Intake ports were made smaller to increase intake velocity.
-T-VIS was removed due to hotter compression and smaller ports.
-Cams were slightly less aggressive.
-The smallport 4AGZE variant made about 170hp, and was found in the AE92 and AE101.

3: Known as the Silvertop, found in the AE101
-Now running 5 valves per cylinder for a total of 20 valves.
-Came stock with quad throttle bodies
-Updated pistons for the 5 valves, now running 10.5:1 compression
-Internals were still the strong beefy type
-Introduced VVT
-No more supercharged versions.
-Came only in an AFM version and made about 160hp

4: Known as the Blacktop, found in the AE101
-Went back to the early bluetop character in it's revability
-Lightened crank, rods, ultralight flywheel, non-ribbed lightened block.
-Made about 165hp and only came in MAP sensored form
-Each of the 4 throttles were increased in diameter
-Ran 11:1 compression


In North America, the Smallport Redtop is popular as an AE86 swap because you can buy any part for it at any auto parts store. Swapping in a silvertop or blacktop is cool, but if you break something, you'll be waiting months to get a part in from Japan.

Using the stock ECU, only the blacktop can run open throttles as it is MAP sensored. You can figure a way to run silvertop throttles open by converting to MAP (by standalone or whatever) but it is more difficult as there is not a common plenum to get a good vacuum reading, as it wasn't designed for this in the first place. Some kind of vacuum canister will have to be fabbed up in order to do this. The dilemma though is that the smaller silvertop throttles are much better suited for general use than the too-big blacktop throttles.

Many people love the early, old, weak bluetop for it's revability, and would cringe at the thought of swapping something heavier in with less throttle response. It *is* just a joy to drive, that's for sure. You can rev to 8000 all day long, every day, year after year and it still won't let you down.

For ultimate 4ag builds, north america has uses the bigport 4ag in Formula Atlantic (with some mucho stronger parts of course) and Japan uses the Silvertop for Group A.

For ultimate forced induction, people use smallport, silvertop or GZE bottom ends and it's been proven to reliably handle 400hp.

FWIW, the 4AG is discontinued and an outdated design, and the G4ED is still a current model. But you can still do AMAZING things with the 4AG, and you also have over 20 years of history and builds to look back, learn from, and apply to mate with current advanced technologies. Not to mention, there are RWD, FWD, and 4WD transaxles the "A" series toyota engines are mated to from the factory.

[Edited by AccentAE86 on Dec 20, 2005 1:37 PM]
 
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