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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello,

Took my car to get tuned. It is an 04 1.6L 5 speed Hyundai Accent. It is turbocharged and intercooled. At first, all I had done was the basic turbo and intercooler setup. I added an SAFC2 and I obviously went dangerously lean as soon as it saw boost. I still had my factory MAP sensor and OEM injectors installed (how big are the OEM injectors BTW?). I have since replaced the injectors with 310cc and added an AEM F/I C computer. I wired it in properly and the tuner asked I fix the fact the AEM computer can not see the proper RPM (he says it is everywhere) and the CPS may need a signal conditioner. What can I do to tune this setup. I am planning to build my motor and run mmore boost which is why I didn't cheap out and got a decent computer in the AEM. Any suggestions? I am on the verge of getting rid of it with all this headache I am having trying to tune it. The SAFC2 and AEM are both in right now, with 310cc injectors and that is it. HELP ME PLEASE!!!!!
 

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as far as i know you're on your own cuz i don't know of anyone else that has used the AEM computer. only thing i can think of for it not reading the tach right is that you may have it hooked to the wrong wire or its not set to read a 4cyl.
 

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running 310cc injectors would probably be good enough for something like 15 psi. Anymore than that and i'd run something bigger.

at 8-9 psi I start running lean with the 240cc
I also am running a walbro 255 and bell engineering adjustable rising rate regulator with an safc2 controlling what it can.

what i've found out is the safc is much better at metering out fuel than it is adding it. Right now i've rough tuned mine at 6psi and i'm taking out fuel once the rising rate kicks in in the lower rpms around -10 till the boost evens things out which is when things rise to around +10. I'm able to keep a 11:1 a/f through most of my rpms until around redline where it hits 11.5:1.

I know we are talking different setups since you don't have the convenience of having a return fuel line but you shouldn't have any problems just running the safc if your keeping your boost lower. With big enough injectors I think i'd be fine with just the safc to about 15psi. The tune would always be rough because I can't tune the switchover point very well but its good enough for me and safely rich.

Running the aem piggy back is a different story though. I'm not sure how your doing that with the safc still hooked up anyway. Unless you have the newer aem spark controller then it would make sense since you are able to control your ignition timing.

If you aren't getting a good rpm signal, I know msd used to make a converter to get a less noisy signal for use of their tachs. Maybe consider looking into that or just finding a better signal(crank sensor or cam sensor might be better than a coil).

Its a bear when you start getting to this level of tuning
I jumped right into a project I didn't know much about and thank god for my wide band and strong stock head gaskets becasue i'd be on my second or third motor by now.

good luck
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks for the input. I have noticed that the safc reads 250-500rpm lower than it should. Says it idles 490 rpm but the tach shows normal. The LC2 uses a Hal style sensor setup correct? I am going to use the SAFC to control the air signal and the FIC to control fuel (like you stated, the SAFC is inadequate with fuel control). The AEM FIC uses the Cam Position sensor or crank position sensor to alter timing. Anyways, the tach signal remains pinned. I assume that the FIC only requires one signal input to get RPM. I noticed the guy who wired it in wired in the cam position and the crank signal. ANy ways, any input is always helpful.
 

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AEM programs are trash if there not 100% made for your car that why your having problems and im runing 12psi on my 1.6 with stock injectors and computer till next year when my program is done then my rpm will be reset to 10 thousand my timing changed and fuel and ill up to 15-17psi
 

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dude you aren't running 12psi. last thread you made you didn't even have a manifold. wtf. if you are running 12psi post something to prove it. not to mention if you were running 12psi on stock injectors and ecm your **** would blow the **** up from running so lean.
 

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I dont know anything about the aem but i will try to help you out. Is the safc reading the same rpm as the aem? If so you need to find a better source for your rpm signal (assuming they are both tapped into the same wire). Next No point in having both of those hooked up, i'd say if you can get the aem working and ditch the safc, if you dont get it working use the safc. If the tach signal is wired into two different tach signals i doubt it would read proper. Try cutting one wire or the other.
 

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ryanolson said:
dude you aren't running 12psi. last thread you made you didn't even have a manifold. wtf. if you are running 12psi post something to prove it. not to mention if you were running 12psi on stock injectors and ecm your **** would blow the **** up from running so lean.
No it wont blow up. I have the same setup as JDMsupra... Stock injectors/fuel pump and safcII. when my wastegate went out the psi would spike to 10 psi at about 3,500 rpm and the worst I ever saw or felt was the car bogged and just wouldnt run past those rpms...Id let off the gas and the rpms would rise as soon as psi spiked again it bogged...

Your all right about the safc not doing to well with adding fuel. I got mine +25 at 3K rpm, +28 4k rpm, +32 5k, +40 6k rpm.
 

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that bogging could have been your car going super lean
it happened to me when I first got the car from gimp
thank god for hyundais using metal head gaskets

if you haven't invested in a wide band you should do so
it is the best security measure you can take to make sure you not going lean

i was using the stock 02s narrowband signal with my safc2 and it gave me some heads up that I was running super lean that is when I invested in a wide band, new wastegate, fuel pump and a new rising rate regulator.

right now running 240cc injectors I think they will be maxed out at about 8-9psi. At 5-6 psi i'm at a safe 11.5:1 a/f up to redline. I still have to try to tune at 7-8 psi once I get the turbo rebuilt.

You don't want your injectors running full duty cycle because it makes it worthless to run the safc then.

Like I said in another post the safc is only good at taking fuel out, it doesn't work very well at adding fuel in. So it is best to start out with a bigger injector and then lean things out if you need to. Your idle quality might not be that good with big injectors but you will be running a much safer a/f ratio when your in boost.
 

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Yeah I did that already. I installed 440cc injectors that i got from Hyundaiturbo14b and the idle sucked and the car barly drove anywhere and I had -50% across the board. Now with those little numbers I left in my last post I'm using stock injectors and I'm able to punch it a bit...not so much kick untill i reach 5k rpm and the car just takes off till redline...I sometimes forget to shift just because the the car just keeps gainning power the higher the rpm goes.

Another thing I did was installed a Mitsu 190 fuel pump off a 2nd gen GSX and again...idle sucks like with the 440cc injectors and when I punch it the car goes but once boost is lost or I shift the car dies. I guess thats the engine flodding or something...and this happens with 190 fuel pump and 440cc injectors...its not drivable at all.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
well, I have a tial wastegate @ 5 psi. When I was running the OEM injectors, the car would go CRAZY lean as soon as it saw boost even with the SAFC maxed out +50 across the board (I do have a WB 02). In order to obtain greater control over fuel and to add timing control, I purchased the FIC. I plan to run my car at 8-9psi fully tuned before I do a motor build. Unfortunately, I can not get it off the ground. The car starts and idles with the 310cc injectors, but when you step on it, it goes CRAZY rich. I can not pull fuel out with the AEM FIC because the signal being pulled from the crank/cam position is shitty, the gauge in the AEM software shows the signal pinned. I am getting tired of the situation. I thought about using the SAFC now to pull fuel. Quick question, how do I adjust the RPM? It seems to read 250rpm too low. Says it is idliing at 490rpm but it isn't, it is idling fine. Thannks guys.
 

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Your afc is? Maybe they were right...try clipping the wire that is pulling rpm signal to the AEM unit...may not be getting the right signal. Mine reads great...also too...i know boost is different but the engine is the same. Hyundai 1.6 alpha engines run great when they are lean. I know I had mine with headers and got a tune w/ A/F ratio first pull gave me 98whp at 5k rpm with a/f mix of about 12-13...second pull 3k-4k= 11.* and 5-redline= 12* 106whp at 5k rpm. I later leaned it out about 2% more all around and it ran even better...so right now the way I have it the car runs great...a little bogging if I punch it too quickly gotta 50%-80% from 3k-4,500 and then I'm able to punch it 5k and on, it just carries...I redline the sme but I can take 3rd gear to 80 mph and 4th to 105-107. Either way i need an emanage or something. I'm looking at same numbers too. 8-10 psi or 180-200 whp, wichever is hit first.
 

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fintile said:
Your afc is? Maybe they were right...try clipping the wire that is pulling rpm signal to the AEM unit...may not be getting the right signal. Mine reads great...also too...i know boost is different but the engine is the same. Hyundai 1.6 alpha engines run great when they are lean. I know I had mine with headers and got a tune w/ A/F ratio first pull gave me 98whp at 5k rpm with a/f mix of about 12-13...second pull 3k-4k= 11.* and 5-redline= 12* 106whp at 5k rpm. I later leaned it out about 2% more all around and it ran even better...so right now the way I have it the car runs great...a little bogging if I punch it too quickly gotta 50%-80% from 3k-4,500 and then I'm able to punch it 5k and on, it just carries...I redline the sme but I can take 3rd gear to 80 mph and 4th to 105-107. Either way i need an emanage or something. I'm looking at same numbers too. 8-10 psi or 180-200 whp, wichever is hit first.
Yeah your stinking rich I'd swp the 440cc injectors out for some 330-360cc injectors then if you keep -50% until you hit boost then richen it up from there you'd be alot closer to the ball park. Boost is something you can't throw a bunch of junk at and hope it works there is actually science here...
 

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berserko said:
Yeah your stinking rich I'd swp the 440cc injectors out for some 330-360cc injectors then if you keep -50% until you hit boost then richen it up from there you'd be alot closer to the ball park. Boost is something you can't throw a bunch of junk at and hope it works there is actually science here...
Yeah, I'm cctully trying to get some 290cc injectors. Talked to a couple guys on here that say they have them but never finalized it past that. 290cc I've heard of guys driving on a stock ecu (no SAFC or E-manage) and it runs a pretty decently when crusing. Thats my worry is having too much fuel going into the car when I lose boost or shift. I'm back to stock injectors now so the car runs fine. just not that much power and can't seam to get it to run past 5-6 psi.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Boost is often overcomplicated. It is not that a bunch of junk was thrown at the car. If you research and see what an FIC is suppose to do, I thought I can use it to eliminate the need for the safc2 which frankly is garbage. I have read on here of people attempting what I am trying to do and I have yet to see any one with great success have a 1.6L factory lc2 engine run on a simple piggyback 8-9psi and claim it is 100% reliable. The shop that is now taking the Accent project on is looking at providing an economical and reliable package for Hyundai models here in Canada. Lets face it, we own cheap cars and we aren't ones to drop fat cash on a complete turnkey solution for our vehicles. I am doing this to try and inject some new information and life into our community. No one has tried this combination so I dared to be different. I don't want to spend the money on a standalone or overcomplicate my life with one either. At this point, I don't think I need one. As soon as I have answers, I will share them with all of you. Thank you everyone for your help and support.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
BTW, the reason why both of those pieces of electronics are in there is because I did not know that this AEM unit will do what I needed, so why remove the SAFC when it shouldn't do anything set at 0....I thought if the AEM didn't work, I would "back yard" the car with the Apexi piece and remove the AEM or vice versa if the AEM worked. This shop will have a manifold and full set up ready for January 1st on my car. No one wanted to help me because it is an "Accent" and I thought because these guys always worked on sports cars and such, they would laugh, but they said they are excited to help out the Hyundai guys. The setup under my hood is pretty sketchy ;) BUt I will post before and after pics. My setup vs their setup. Again, thanks everyone, I hope I can contribute in a positive manner.
 

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I hear what you are saying

it is tough when you are working with hyundais since people have so little experience with turbocharging acccents. I have seen some setups that work well and others that run when they decide to. Rob's turbo lc2 seems to run pretty well on megasquirt. It's a big job and can be an even bigger headache which is why I probably won't go that route but his runs well enough for him to drive a few hundred miles a day with it.

i've had my share of problems too but for the most part my car runs great, off boost it feels like an accent with minor bolt ons and still gets great gas mileage 30+ on the highway. I have compromised my setup because i'm not going to for all out power since it is an autocross car. Anymore than about 7psi the stock pressure plate can't hold the torque and even at that boost i'm spinning the inside tire coming out of turns. More power would be great but I still have to drive the car to events so I can't have a car that barely idles.

The downfall for the lcs/lc2s that are turbocharged is you don't have the convenience of running a rising rate regulator since you don't have a return fuel line. When you are stuck running a bigger injector, I can go with something smaller and just add fuel pressure with increased boost. It is the old solution but it seems to work fairly well. With newer returnless fuel systems you need to run the bigger injectors for this reason plus you need to tune the crap out of it to get it to run right. That is why people in the industry now are using the "flashpacks" more and more to do their tuning. They let the stock ecu do its thing but reprogram stock values for fuel and timing needs. It must be nice to have an aftermarket.

I wish you all the luck on your project and hope you succeed before it becomes a money pit that you can't enjoy.

Also you guys are stuck with a map based system which would be completely different to tune with the afc.
 

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ive been reading the posts on here and you guys are right there isnt alot of support out there for our cars and all the newer hyundaisdont have return systems so you cant just adjust the fuel pressure according to boost. but we can put one in ive seen many shops do this before and it doesnt seem quite hard, as far as safc you have to understand what it does before you try to hack stuff, the safc increases or decreases fuel according to map or maf voltage, it controls the voltage going to the ecu and therfor +- fuel. in affect it would also somewhat control the boost that the map sensor sees, that is why in dsm's if you dont have a big enough injector for your setup and you try to compensate by adding fuel on the safc you are actually adding voltage from the maf to the ecu so in turn you might get a fuel cut wich is basically when the ecu sees to much air flow it cuts out. now fintile has my setup now and he is constantly trying to improve it, but when I had it I first ran without safc and it ran okay except for the same bog he is getting now under about 4500 the car would bog if I punched it and all of a sudden it would let go. but when I got the safc I actually leaned it out at around the point where the bog was about 13% and raise the fuel with safc toward redline. and the bog was almost completly gone. now my theory was that the map was freaking out when it saw boost and relayed this info to the ecu. then as a safety the ecu would instruct the injectors to dump fuel and pull back timming witch is exactly what it felt like, i dont know if you have ever felt a car pull back timming but it feels like the motor is flooding and the power is just not there. then I believe that at around 4500 rpm the timming would be low enough and the fuel would be there and full boost to make a pretty good combination. now when I put the safc and leaned it out I believe it was just trying to decrease the map voltage and therefor allowing the ecu to not flood my fuel system and not pull back so much timming. so if im right it completly make sense to put bigger injectors/ not to big becouse the safc is limited but big enough then lean the safc(pull back voltage) so that the transition from n/a to boost is pretty smooth and well now your doing what dsm's do with the safc wich is 1 controll fuel but also control air flow voltage in order to try to run more boost. well that is my theory I hope this helps. and the reason I have these theories is becouse Ive been around dsm's for quite some time and alot of guys use the safc for tunning and therefor I have learned how they work then Im only applying these lessons to hyundais and trying to make some sense of things..
 
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