Hyundai Forum: Hyundai Performance Forum banner

1 - 20 of 30 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,344 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Or rather the stupid "system" we have to work with here. Some of you might remember, I started selling cars about 3 months ago at a Mazda Subaru dealer here in Baltimore. Since then I've gotten about 30 cars off the lot and made a decent amount of money doing it. So far the sales side has been almost fun, as I'm basically BS'ing about the cars all day long and I can keep it simple for the dummies or hang with the car geeks when they come in. I've also become the go-to guy for everyone at the dealership when it comes to answering a technical question or anything about any of the miatas.

Then there's the sh!t I can not STAND.
1) They've ****ed up my paycheck. Twice. And it took untill the next pay period to get it resolved. That in itself is enough for me to be looking elsewhere.

2) I've gotten 0 training since I've started, yet I get yelled at for making "rookie mistakes". This in itself is enough to make me look elsewhere.

3) I get yelled at for not doing things that either arent my job or are beyond my control (example, not responding to the internet leads that were going to a recently fired sales manger for 3 ****ing WEEKS after he was fired, somehow thats MY fault).

4) the straw that broke the camel's back: I had a customer on monday that I've worked with several times that I sold a used 2003 WRX to and made a fat profit on. The customer liked me enough to give me discounts at his shop (car audio, interiors, etc, might actually use it for the dodge), wants to put my cards at their counter, wants to put the dealership's decals on their show car, etc. I spent close to 9 hours over two days, including 6 hours on the day of the sale and worked my ass off to get the dealer good money for the car. The problem came on Tuesday, my day off and the day the car was to be delivered. Since my customer's schedule is screwy, I asked him to call me so I could come in and deliver it and finish the deal. called, but no message so I didnt know who it was so another salesman aparently did the actual delivery of the car (10mins, tops). Now that other salesman gets HALF of my ****ing deal. My $624 turns into a $312 deal with a "sorry, you should have been here". I am so ****ing enraged right now, its all I can do to not blow up at everyone here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,145 Posts
That sucks, but what did you really expect? Car dealers to be fair and honest? Not likely. Maybe in backwards world or something. This is standard Car dealership b.s. and you should get use to it or find another profession because it won't change anytime soon, or ever for that matter. Some places are better than others but the industry sucks as a whole from what's happened to all of my friends that have worked at dealerships.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,344 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Ok, on that note here's another half of the car dealership rant: the customers. Not saying this is how it is everywhere, but goddamn 95% of customers lie more and lie first in the car buying process. "Buyers are liars" is the term we use. Good example: I ask all my customers the same basic questions, like are you going to be purchasing a car today or are you still shopping, how do you plan to pay finance the vehicle (to find out if its worth our time to go through the company or to just go through their credit union), and do you have a trade-in. ALMOST EVERYONE lies about the first, hides their info on the second (oh, i'm paying cash or i dont have a bank, only to find out they're already pre-approved for a loan through their bank that we could have beaten or at least gotten), and a few still hide that they have a trade or the condition of it. Just be ****ing HONEST with us, those arent loaded questions, they'll affect how easy/happy we are to deal with you're retardedly low ball price you want on that new car that has next to no markup and no incentives. And for ****s sake dont shop every single dealer in the area to wring every last penny out of the deal, dont expect us to jump at your "offer" of $1000 under invoice, and dont get mad and send us nasty emails when we tell you to get the **** out and stop wasting our time. IT IS a business after all, we're here to make money not let you beat on our cars.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,692 Posts
I sold Hyundai's for almost 4 years before I switched careers. So I know all ablot the crap that salespeople have to put up with. The paycheque ****ups were happening all the time and there was never any real proof of what the dealership was actually making on each car. So how am I supposed to check my comissions? I sometimes got the feeling that the dealership would show as little proffit as possible so the comission was even smaller.
I didn't like the fact that I had no life. Evenings and weekends were all spent either working or thinking about work.
Our dealership was a pretty close bunch. we all watched each other's back. If a customer showed up for a surprise delivery, one of them would call to try to get you in to do it. The rule at the dealership wa that if you weren't there to do the delivery then you would have to split it. But we had our own unwritten system. If a customer came in when I wasn't there someone would deliver it for me. If the same happened to them I would do the same. If you fealy like buying them a case of beer for the help than it only helps to strengthen relations.

I am not saying I regret selling cars. I have met some of the best people I have ever known selling cars. It also gives you a new perspective on life. It has helped me get where I am today and taught me a lot of life skills. But I am happy to now have a steady paycheque every two weeks and be able to do things in the evenings and weekends. Now I can persue a Solo2 season and know I can get to each of the events.

Hope you get something good from this.;):
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,692 Posts
Originally posted by skierd
[body]
Ok, on that note here's another half of the car dealership rant: the customers. Not saying this is how it is everywhere, but goddamn 95% of customers lie more and lie first in the car buying process. "Buyers are liars" is the term we use. Good example: I ask all my customers the same basic questions, like are you going to be purchasing a car today or are you still shopping, how do you plan to pay finance the vehicle (to find out if its worth our time to go through the company or to just go through their credit union), and do you have a trade-in. ALMOST EVERYONE lies about the first, hides their info on the second (oh, i'm paying cash or i dont have a bank, only to find out they're already pre-approved for a loan through their bank that we could have beaten or at least gotten), and a few still hide that they have a trade or the condition of it. Just be ****ing HONEST with us, those arent loaded questions, they'll affect how easy/happy we are to deal with you're retardedly low ball price you want on that new car that has next to no markup and no incentives. And for ****s sake dont shop every single dealer in the area to wring every last penny out of the deal, dont expect us to jump at your "offer" of $1000 under invoice, and dont get mad and send us nasty emails when we tell you to get the **** out and stop wasting our time. IT IS a business after all, we're here to make money not let you beat on our cars.
[/body]
^^^This is reason #2 why I left.

Sounds like something I could have said a few months ago.

People used to think that by being tough with me was going to get them a deal. I say screw you buddy. I am definately going back for a bump.

The car buying process can bring the best out of people and it can and usually does bring the worst of them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,145 Posts
Well, it doesn't help that the majority of people trying to sell you a car are arrogant assholes that are trying to screw you. Not all salesmen are, and I know the two of you are not, but most of them are. So walking into a dealership is more often than not a dreaded experience.

"Buyers are liars"? Coming from a dealership that's gotta be the funniest/most asinine thing I've ever heard. It's just a coincidence that 90% of the cars I've looked at were traded in by a little old lady then? My Bronco with offroad tires and the "I love rugby" license plate frame was too. I was told it was. Also my Blazer, gangsta-tinted Cougar with rims, and I don't even know how many that I've just test driven. I've gone to buying vehicles at auction because at least the auctioneer isn't lying about the history of the car. Lying is a large portion of most salesmen's rap.

Lying about whether you intend on buying a car or not? Many people don't intend on buying a car. If they do it's high pressure sales or greed that talk them into it on the spot.

I don't know why people don't say how they plan on buying the car. I would guess because many of them don't plan on buying a car at all that day.

Dealerships screw you on trade ins. It's a fact. NEVER reveal you have a trade in until you've agreed upon a price and be prepared to sell your current vehicle yourself because you may not get what you want out of it for trade in. Otherwise they'll just try to spread the screwing around, a little off the sales price, a little off the trade in price to make up for it. I say never trade in a car at all unless you like burning money. Put a sign on it and get 25-50% more in a week out in front of your house.

Don't shop around? Craziness. For a new car find two competing dealerships and play them off one another. I saved $1750 on an Accent compared to the best offer at either dealer by simply calling and saying I was going with the other dealer, so forget about it. They of course counter offered. And around and around we went until I saved $1750 and got a free alarm installed. I got my Accent GT new with every option except the auto which I didn't want, plus an alarm installed for $10,500. $12,250 was their best offer before playing them against each other.

I am not on the side of the dealership, or the salesmen, I'm on the consumer's side. Dealerships are a business, in the business of sucking every dime possible out of the consumer. That's capitalism, baby but don't expect everyone to be happy about getting screwed or cooperate in the process. Maybe you walk in and ask what the sticker is and tell them you'll take it but when you can get 25% off of that price or more you're a fool to do it.

I know the two of you are good guys, so don't take it personal. Car salesmen generally live up to their reputations.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,344 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
What I meant by shopping around, is when a customer comes in and wastes 3-4 hours of your time over several days, sits down and wants a quote, so you give him a good, fair deal (and its never all the money so I can afford to eat and so they can keep the lights on), and then to have the little ****er goto a another place and say "beat this price". Over the phone/internet shopping, go ahead get as many figures as you need. But dont come in and bust my balls for DAYS only to go somewhere else while i've missed several ups that i could of sold a car to because you were a douche.


Oh, what makes it worse is the dude who delivered it (we have the same official rules your place has) was someone I thought I was cool with and wouldnt do me like that. Should have known better.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,692 Posts
25% markup?????? Are you frickin' kidding me?

The reason you get less on the trade is because the dealership is NOT going to give you a retail price for your car. You get a wholesale price. BUT! You get the money back in tax savings later. Besides. The dealership takes the car as-is. I would rather trade the car than have every Tom Dick or Harry knocking on my door or calling me at all hours of the day.

Do you think we have meetings every morning where all we hear is "screw the customer"? That is not the case at all.

When I worked I made a minimum of $125 a deal. Do you really think I am going to take a lot of crap for a measly $125? Do you know how many cars you have to sell to make a decent living?

I suppose you could look at it two ways. The salesperson is going to screw you out of your hard earned cash, or you are going to screw the salesperson out of his hard work in getting you the best deal on that damn car. Does it make you feel good to know that you are taking money out of his pocket? All he is trying to do is make a living. He doesn't put his shoes on in the morning to get beaten up over ****ing $5 a month. That is a couple of coffees to you... But to him it means paying the bills.

Try putting the other guy's shoes on once in a while. I did that for every customer I sold a car too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,145 Posts
Graham, I said you were a good guy. I doubt you tried to screw people. It is obvious from the deal above that the margin is much more here or something. I paid 27.5% below sticker for my Accent. I got 16% below their previous best offer that I walked out on. Those are the numbers.

$125 a day is decent pay, not great but it's okay. What I do feel good about is keeping my money in my pocket. I know a lot of these guys actually would have sold the car I bought for $14,500 or so. That's what it said on the sticker and I know people who paid that much. I don't know how that works out but I'm sure they got a lot less selling the same car for $10,500. I do not care about the guy making less for not screwing me out of $4,000. Or even the $1750 I got them down after I got them competing with one another. For the first thing, both salesmen at both dealers I was dealing with lied to me. The first dealer had me come to the lot (100miles away) to pick up the car because they had our financing in order and I could sign and pick up the car. I went and they lied, needed me to fill out more stuff and I was declined because I was in a debt management program. No problem, I could finance it through my bank, but I drove 200miles on a lie. So I got a loan on the car, had them fax the info to my bank and everything was in order. I called before picking it up and they had sold the car out from underneath me. So I had to get a different loan for a different car. Hard part was, they sold the last GT with the power package they could get. So I went back to the other dealer, who offered the same price but a free alarm installed. Got a loan, went to pick up the car but the salesman wasn't there and had hidden the keys to the car in case someone else tried to sell it to me when I showed up at the time we were supposed to meet there. He called me "from the dealership" asking me where I was while I was there because he assumed I had left and had to admit that he was actually at home when he found out I was still there. I had to come back tomorrow.

I know most of these guys don't get huge comissions off of me, but they make up for it by taking advantage of people who don't know any better that come in there and pay sticker or $1000 below sticker. I know a guy that bought a base model Accent for more than I paid for my GT. He didn't even have air conditioning.

I do think it's b.s. to waste a salesman's time. I don't think it's wasting his time if I say I've got it covered and he won't go away though. Or if he calls me up to see what I was thinking. I said I would get back to him after I think about it. If he wants to waste his time that's his problem. I also won't dicker over 5% or less of the vehicle price. $500 on a $10,000 vehicle, $100 on a $2000 vehicle. It's just not worth anyone's time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,344 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Its not $125/day, its $125 per car. And thats Canadian, hell I only make a minimum of $50 on a new car and $75 on used.

And you were going to pay $14,500 on an Accent?! Dude, they're only $10,500 anyways, you paid sticker lol.

If you're in a Debt management program, I cant imagine why they couldnt get you financed easily. :hmmm: Also, its not their fault that someone else with better credit or money available then came in and bought the car. Money talks, bullshit walks as they say. Now, for the other place where the salesman wasnt there thats just bs but it happens. The dude was coming in on his day off afterall, cut the man some slack (not that I would have in that situation either).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,145 Posts
Originally posted by skierd
[body]
Its not $125/day, its $125 per car. And thats Canadian, hell I only make a minimum of $50 on a new car and $75 on used.
[/body]
I was saying it wouldn't be a waste of his time to take a couple of hours to sell me a car for a $125 profit.

Originally posted by skierd
[body]
And you were going to pay $14,500 on an Accent?! Dude, they're only $10,500 anyways, you paid sticker lol.
[/body]
So all Accents cost the same regardless of options huh? No. Base model yes, $10,000. Not what I bought. I would build my car online for you and post a pic but they've changed the options since then so I can't. It was a Package 5 '03 Accent. Maybe I'll dig up the window sticker and scan it. I'm sure my wife squirreled it away somewhere. Not saying the dealer sticker reflects anything other than what they wanted to charge (basically screwing people) because I doubt many people came in and paid that much for one. Also I bought a LC2 in 03 when they cost the same for a base model as a GL costs now that they no longer make a base model Accent. All the Accents were more expensive then than now I think. They've gone down now that the '06 is coming out so you can't compare then to now. But no, I wouldn't have paid $14,000 for an Accent. I walked out on $12,500 and would not have bought it for that.

Originally posted by skierd
[body]
If you're in a Debt management program, I cant imagine why they couldnt get you financed easily. :hmmm:
[/body]
It's not that they couldn't finance me, it's that the ****ers told me they could so I had to drive 200 miles to find out they lied. I was easy enough to finance through my bank, but that's beside the point.

Originally posted by skierd
[body]
Also, its not their fault that someone else with better credit or money available then came in and bought the car. Money talks, bullshit walks as they say.
[/body]
So, after they knew I had the loan approved and faxed my bank the information knowing full well I got the loan you think it's right to sell the car out from under me? It wasn't up in the air, I had the loan and a pickup date set. If you think that's fair then I was wrong about you and you are a typical car salesman. Well, now I guess I know better. You are in the right profession and will probably go far.

Originally posted by skierd
[body]
Now, for the other place where the salesman wasnt there thats just bs but it happens. The dude was coming in on his day off afterall, cut the man some slack (not that I would have in that situation either).
[/body]
It wasn't the guy's day off, he requested I pick it up on a day and time he was working and I agreed. Then he wasn't there. I guess his coworkers liked him though because they wouldn't deliver it to me even after I waited around for him so I had to go back.


In the bigger scheme of things and back to your problems at the dealership - basically your problems prove my point. Whether you like it or not or understand where the problems come from it is because most people in the car business are dicks. Your boss who authorizes the payroll is the same guy that use to screw people out of their hard earned cash on a daily basis as a salesman. He sees you as the guy trying to pull the cash that's rightfully his out of his pockets the way you see a customer dickering over price as trying to take money out of yours that you deserve. Every honest person I know that went to work for a car dealership eventually had to leave and change professions either because of the shady b.s. going on or to sleep at night from screwing people over as a salesman. You know what? They are probably screwing you on your commissions. One of my friends use to write the checks herself and have to "adjust" the paperwork to cover all sorts of things up. She eventually got fired because she wouldn't have sex with the owner too. If you're an honest person get out of the field and into anything besides law and politics while you still have a soul.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,692 Posts
Originally posted by 187sks
[body]
Originally posted by skierd
[body]
Its not $125/day, its $125 per car. And thats Canadian, hell I only make a minimum of $50 on a new car and $75 on used.
[/body]
I was saying it wouldn't be a waste of his time to take a couple of hours to sell me a car for a $125 profit.
[/body]
Let's look at the math of it. Most salespeople work at least 50 hours a week. So that is about 200 hours a month.

The average salesperson sells between 8-13 cars a month.

If I sell 10 cars at minimum, that means I earn $1250.00 BEFORE TAXES.

Now...

$1250.00 / 200 hrs = $6.25/hr.

Made me wonder why I wasn't flipping burgers at McDonalds for at least minimum wage.

Damn right I am going to try to keep some gross in the deal. That is why I don't feel bad about it.

Here in Canada the average profit on an Accent is $600-$900. This is due to the promotional leasing and financing that is available. Do you think it is cheap getting people financed over 72 months a 0%? The bank doesn't do it for free. What about the lease deals at $150 per month?

I don't know how things are done in the US but they must have some HEAVY factory incentives. It also must have been near the end of the model year.

[Edited by Cottonmouth on Oct 19, 2005 4:38 PM]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,216 Posts
hey dude what dealership do you work at, because i used to work at one around bmore and we used the phrase "buyers are liars" too. It is so true.

What happened with you is the main reason that I got out of car sales; i thought that there would be some type of integrity at least amoung your coworkers----nope.

i had one person there that we would deliver eachother's car for and not have to worry about splitting it...but there were others that would show up early for their shift because they knew you had someone coming in and were going to try and force you to split it.

I freakin' hated the people i worked with.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
277 Posts
my 05 accent GS... not GSI was $14 600 plus 15% tax plus 900 freight... bout $18000.. i love canada :dead:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,692 Posts
"Buyers are Liars" is a phrase commonly used in the car sales business. Must be something to it then huh?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,145 Posts
Originally posted by Cottonmouth
[body]
I don't know how things are done in the US but they must have some HEAVY factory incentives. It also must have been near the end of the model year.
[/body]
Heavy factory incentives, yes, but it wasn't near the end of the model year. It was the middle of the model year.

I think it takes a lot of nerve having a saying like "buyers are liars". Car salesmen are known to be some of the most crooked liars in the world and they have a saying about the buyers being liars. Whatever. Extra reason not to buy from a dealer or lot. Sooner or later I could pick it up whatever car I want in a private sale or at an auction.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,692 Posts
Originally posted by 187sks
[body]
Originally posted by Cottonmouth
[body]
I don't know how things are done in the US but they must have some HEAVY factory incentives. It also must have been near the end of the model year.
[/body]
Heavy factory incentives, yes, but it wasn't near the end of the model year. It was the middle of the model year.

I think it takes a lot of nerve having a saying like "buyers are liars". Car salesmen are known to be some of the most crooked liars in the world and they have a saying about the buyers being liars. Whatever. Extra reason not to buy from a dealer or lot. Sooner or later I could pick it up whatever car I want in a private sale or at an auction.
[/body]
So I guess it goes both ways then right?

Are you saying that the phrase isn't true?

Are we wrong to try to keep some gross to pay the bills?

Should we just drop our pants to anybody who comes to the dealership and give them cost?

If that makes me a bad person or a liar then so be it.:dead:

[Edited by Cottonmouth on Oct 20, 2005 8:17 AM]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,063 Posts
I agree with both sides of this argument. Me as a consumer, I think I have a right to get the best deal I can. I work 65 hrs a week for my money so I know what hard works all about. When I go into a dealer I know what I'll pay for it. I'm not going to waste a salesmans next three days working on a deal. I agree this is ridiculous. I think wasting three days isnt worth it no matter how much you make off the deal. $hit I wouldn't waste three days as a buyer to save 500 bucks. Yeah five hundred in three days is good money, but fvck that, I'll make more spending that time at work on even more double time. But I do know salesman can be jag offs too. I've only known 3 people to ever sell cars and they all quit because of the b.s. that goes with the business. But then again, sales in general is bull$hit. You can sell almost whatever you want and the place you work at is going to suck balls. Personally the sales business sucks and is too stressful. I dont want to have to make deals to make money, I'd rather get paid decent money by the hour. Like I said I agree with both sides, but both sides have a $hitty view of things. You can rely on getting screwed by a dealer unless you're intelligent and dont give a fvck one way or another, and you can sell car and have a crappy job.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,145 Posts
Originally posted by Cottonmouth
[body]
So I guess it goes both ways then right?

Are you saying that the phrase isn't true?

Are we wrong to try to keep some gross to pay the bills?

Should we just drop our pants to anybody who comes to the dealership and give them cost?

If that makes me a bad person or a liar then so be it.:dead:
[/body]
I'm saying that car salesmen, in general, have no place to talk about liars. So they expect to be able to lie to consumers on a daily basis and not have the buyers be all defensive around them? That's the part that pisses me off. It's like saying "How dare you lie to me while I'm lying to you?". It's rediculous. It's the pompousness of a car salesman acting as if he is above lying to the buyer. It's like a guy who steals stereos out of cars throwing a big fit over someone taking his pen. Car salesmen have no right to expect people to be honest with them.

I don't suggest in any way that buyers tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, I just think it's b.s. for salesmen to expect it and act as if they deserve better than they treat their customers. Like they want a monopoly over all lying that will be done.

Are you wrong to want to make more money off of a sale...no. Is it wrong to lie to people to get more money out of a sale, yes. That doesn't mean you did, I doubt it. Many do however.

No, you shouldn't sell cars at cost. Honestly what I'm saying has more to do with used cars where the value of the car is not as cut and dried as a new car. Where lying about the history of the car and the condition of the car is applicable and can make a huge difference in the sale price. It's one thing to make a reasonable profit. It's another thing to put sawdust or 90w gear oil in an engine and sell it for full price now that it runs quiet. I have seen both situations and more happen to my friends and family. These people call us liars amongst each other. That's just plain ****ed up man.

Graham, I don't think you're a bad person, and I doubt you're a liar. There's not a lot of lying to be done about a new car, although it can and does happen too. Being an honest person you did what every other honest person I've known in the car business has done. You've gotten out. That helps to prove my point.
 
1 - 20 of 30 Posts
Top