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Discussion Starter #1
Are there any techniques for using the MSG that differ from those of a standard tranny? I don't use the thing that much, but I have fun with it when I do. What's the best way to take advantage of this kind of transmission?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Other than the obvious, what's the difference between a MSG and a standard? I would think that even though the car will obviously shift better than me, I could still use the MSG for the same reason people use standard tranny's... or is this not true?
 

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by MSG are you talking about an automatic pretending to be something else? Cars with slushbox automatics with "manual" shifters almost always do better when left in D. My wifes mazda does alot better job when it is doing its own thing. Many hyundai's have shown a loss of time at the track screwing around with the bumpstick. It is nice to have in shitty weather because it will actually stay in lockup until its wayyy down in speed. (atleast with my mazda anyway)

The diffrence between a real standard and what you have you ask?

a clutch and a lot less power lost due to slip/friction/weight/etc. We do not have the power to create the traction issues that give an slush type automatic an advantage.

Standard = pwn "I wanna drive stick" automatics

Now if you have a proper sequential, DSG (if you drive a VW), etc.. that is another story.

The only time I could really see you gaining anything from it performance wise is if you AutoX and use your manual shifter.. then it would be a nice thing to have.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
The only time I could really see you gaining anything from it performance wise is if you AutoX and use your manual shifter.. then it would be a nice thing to have.
What is AutoX, and why would it be a nice thing to have if I had one?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
AutoX = Hauling ass around cones in a parking lot.

The reason it would be nice, you don't want your trans up shifting to save gas when your trying to get out of a corner in a hurry.
Ah, ok. Makes sense.

One more question... downshifting to get some quicker accleration or pass someone on the road with the MSG, like one would with a standard, good idea or bad one? I've done this a number of times, and it didn't feel like I was hurting the transmission any, but I wanted to check and see if this was a good idea or not.

Also along those lines, is it safe to wait to shift up at higher RPMs than the automatic would shift at with the MSG? i.e. shifting up at 5000 RPMs when auto would normally shift up at 3000.
 

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That's why it's there, so you can pretend to be telling the transmission what to do.

Unless Hyundai did something different, you won't be able to kill your car outright by being a nut with the MSG, but you can probably significantly shorten its life. The faster your engine is turning when you tell the clutches to engage/release, the more heat will go into them. If you install a transaxle oil cooler (you should anyway) and keep an eye on the fluid and change it when it starts to turn, you will be able to drive it about as hard as it will allow, without doing too much long-term damage (250k miles vs. 265k failure time)
 

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Discussion Starter #9
That's why it's there, so you can pretend to be telling the transmission what to do.
So, this is a yes it's fine to use the MSG as a standard to downshift for acceleration without hurting it?

Unless Hyundai did something different, you won't be able to kill your car outright by being a nut with the MSG, but you can probably significantly shorten its life. The faster your engine is turning when you tell the clutches to engage/release, the more heat will go into them. If you install a transaxle oil cooler (you should anyway) and keep an eye on the fluid and change it when it starts to turn, you will be able to drive it about as hard as it will allow, without doing too much long-term damage (250k miles vs. 265k failure time)
That makes sense. Exactly why I asked. I wasn't planning on doing that on a regular basis or anything, I just wanted to check. Thanks.
 

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The only other thing I might add is that, if you are going to shift at oddball points under load (heavy accel/decel) you should give the clutches a break and lift off the gas for a moment while it upshifts, or rev-match before it downshifts (as much as you can anyhow). Otherwise, remember it's only a car and a cheap, simple one at that. Keep an eye on your transmission oil and enjoy driving. By the time the transaxle goes, it will probably be pretty cheap/easy to get another one from a junkyard. And hey, if you REALLY drive like a nut you'll roll it long before then so no worries anyhow! :D
 

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Discussion Starter #11
The only other thing I might add is that, if you are going to shift at oddball points under load (heavy accel/decel) you should give the clutches a break and lift off the gas for a moment while it upshifts, or rev-match before it downshifts (as much as you can anyhow). Otherwise, remember it's only a car and a cheap, simple one at that. Keep an eye on your transmission oil and enjoy driving. By the time the transaxle goes, it will probably be pretty cheap/easy to get another one from a junkyard. And hey, if you REALLY drive like a nut you'll roll it long before then so no worries anyhow! :D
Alright, thanks. And hey, I never said I drive like a nut, the whole reason I was asking these questions is so I could avoid driving like a nut! (As much as I can, anyway) :D
 

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hi...a newbie here!

Vehicle: 2009 Tucson V6 Limited Edition with largest V6 & 5-spd automatic.

My story: I accidentally discovered the MSG had 4 speeds this past summer on my first serious road-trip on the most challenging routes I could pick through the rugged mountains of British Columbia. Needless to say I was somewhat disappointed with the Tucson on the first venture into the mountains. Driving as sensibly as possible, the damn tranny never stopped shifting up/down and I found the handling performance as a result mediocre. Watching the fuel consumption readout on the dash, I was even more disappointed at the poor fuel mileage I was achieving. As a 27 yr school-bus driver I am well familiar with usage and care of a complex 5 - 6+ spd "semi-automatic" transmission used manually in difficult terrain. Intrigued by my discovery, I did a little overnight research on this site and others learning all I could about this transmission with it's computer-activated MSG. Using it on the next day of the journey carefully watching the tach and listening for the up/down shift points on various grades, I got improved fuel mileage and the handling performance dramatically improved, exceeding my initial hopes & expectations when starting the trip. On the return journey home, I retraced a few routes, set the trip distance counter and compared fuel mileage, average speed & trip duration using the 4-speed where needed. I got improved overall results and incredible handling. In addition, my wife & I live on a high elevation with a very tight 'hairpin' at the end of a long, steep grade and have found the MSG a necessity in ice, snow or 'black ice'. With the tranny in "D", it keeps shifting up, up while descending making risky brake usage a safety concern.

The questions: Since some of you in the know DON'T recommend overusing the MSG due to overheating and excessive wear, I decided to ask my local Hyundai dealer about installation of a trans-axle cooler and whether this would void my warranty. I have been promised an answer via email when the dealer determines this. The service clerk I talked to didn't seem to know anything about this subject and ventured a guess that Hyundai doesn't manufacture such an option and that it is probably a third-party made device. If installing a trans-axle cooler is not acceptable to Hyundai for warranty issues, then I'll give up and keep my hands off the MSG. OTOH, If so, how often would one change the fluid in the cooler unit?

I would like to consider a road-trip with the Tucson up to the Yukon or Alaska next summer, but want to try and improve usage of the MSG without prematurely wearing out the tranny. Frankly, the way the trans in "D" constantly shifts while in the mountains, I'd be surprised if it lasted beyond 200K under those conditions
 

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a transmission cooler is simply a little heat exchanger that your transmission fluid is piped through. in fact, all automatics have transmission coolers located in the bottom of the rad but under more extreme use and even in some regular use cases the heat exchanger in the rad simply doesn't cut it. heat being the biggest enemy of any transmission.

to answer the fluid question, its the same fluid that is in the transmission so change/flush intervals are the same as what is in your manual.

the cooler should NOT void the warranty, they can argue to have a professional install it and thats about it. they are very easy to install. law is something along the lines that adding in things to your car should never void warranty provided that these systems cause no damage/abnormal conditions to the original components. if they do, your problem. a transmission cooler can only help.
 

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Zero Gravity - thanks for your input. Here in Canada, there seems to be some objection to installation of a transaxle cooler. I tired the dealer I bought my 2009 Tucson from and they said 'maybe' provided it was an after-market product they approved of and installed, the warranty wouldn't get voided. When I actually got around to making an appointment to do this, they reversed this and indicated the warranty on the trans would be voided if I installed a transaxle cooler. Period. A second dealer in another nearby city said "no way" right from the outset, when asked about the warranty. I realize the Hyundai trans isn't the $18,000 semi-automatic Allison transmission that's in my school-bus, but I DO want to get some use out of the MSG to enhance performance. My annual summer road-trip through BC's mountains is coming up in a month and I have every intention of using the MSG to improve my fuel mileage and handling. Zero-Gravity, what are your thoughts on using (not over-using or abusing!) the MSG?? At 20,000 km, should I consider changing the trans fluid given the fact I'm using the MSG??
 

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well im in canada too, ontario here. i can say that it would be ILLEGAL for your warranty to void such an addition/modification as a trans cooler. only way is if it somehow damaged the transmission and they could prove it. see, dealers always want to take your warranty away. saves the company money when you pay for it. or the real sneaky ones will get you to pay for the repair and then bill it again to the manufacturer to get paid twice.

also, do note that no matter what any stealership says you can get your maintenance done ANYWHERE and it will NEVER void the warranty if the mechanic is a certified mechanic. in fact you can do your own work and then they'd have to prove that your actions somehow caused the damage....but it becomes more difficult because they can argue that you aren't 'qualified'.

ok at 20,000km if you replace the trans fluid i will outright say that you are completely insane. rule 1 with maintenance: check your owners manual. consider doing something different? read it again and don't. the truth is that the specified intervals in the manual are overkill. why? its all statistics. if you replace your oil at those intervals there would be something like a 99.999% chance (or whatever) that your engine will not be harmed. they dont want you coming back with a major issue because they screwed up with the maintenance intervals. that would quickly turn into a class action lawsuit which hyundai would lose. to prevent that kind of thing, you make your maintenance schedule complete overkill.

with your MSG? there's very little difference except the computer is not telling the transmission when to shift, you are. the transmission is still shifting and functioning normally. unless there is some strange issue with that particular trans (ie. design flaw) then it shouldn't matter. if there is and there is a different fluid change interval, hyundai would tell you. failure to do so would be negligent on their part and again it turns into a shitshow of a lawsuit.

to check fluid here's an old backyard trick that actually does work. first, stick to your owners manual. not less or more kms, just do it. second, pull the dipstick. put some of the fluid on your index finger. it should look a pink/red colour most describe it as cherry red. not brown or black. next smell it. should smell like oil and NOT burnt. if its got a burned smell something is up. next rub the fluid between your fingers, should not feel gitty and should be just like any other oil. if it fails those tests then you may have a problem, usually start with a fluid flush and filter change and go from there. in some cases a cooler may fix it if you're towing for example.

final word of advice: your warranty is through hyundai NOT the dealer. if in doubt, contact hyundai and NOT the idiot stealers. if they're going to fix it fine, but if they say anything questionable then contact the manufacturer. also remember that there are laws governing what they can and cant do as far as voiding your warranty. know those, not what the guys that have something to gain say.
 

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well im in canada too, ontario here. i can say that it would be ILLEGAL for your warranty to void such an addition/modification as a trans cooler. only way is if it somehow damaged the transmission and they could prove it. see, dealers always want to take your warranty away. saves the company money when you pay for it. or the real sneaky ones will get you to pay for the repair and then bill it again to the manufacturer to get paid twice.

Interesting set of facts - I realize any damage or modifications that can be proven to cause abnormal wear in components gives the manufacturer the excuse they want to void the warranty.

also, do note that no matter what any stealership says you can get your maintenance done ANYWHERE and it will NEVER void the warranty if the mechanic is a certified mechanic. in fact you can do your own work and then they'd have to prove that your actions somehow caused the damage....but it becomes more difficult because they can argue that you aren't 'qualified'.

Yes, i knew about the maintenance criteria. Since it isn't convenient for me to take a ferry every time I want service on my Tucson, my long-time mechanic here signs the warranty log after performing scheduled service, and lists his BC mechanics license # on the log

ok at 20,000km if you replace the trans fluid i will outright say that you are completely insane. rule 1 with maintenance: check your owners manual. consider doing something different? read it again and don't. the truth is that the specified intervals in the manual are overkill. why? its all statistics. if you replace your oil at those intervals there would be something like a 99.999% chance (or whatever) that your engine will not be harmed. they dont want you coming back with a major issue because they screwed up with the maintenance intervals. that would quickly turn into a class action lawsuit which hyundai would lose. to prevent that kind of thing, you make your maintenance schedule complete overkill.

points taken

with your MSG? there's very little difference except the computer is not telling the transmission when to shift, you are. the transmission is still shifting and functioning normally. unless there is some strange issue with that particular trans (ie. design flaw) then it shouldn't matter. if there is and there is a different fluid change interval, hyundai would tell you. failure to do so would be negligent on their part and again it turns into a shitshow of a lawsuit.

thanks for again giving me the confidence to make the maximum use out of the MSG driving through the mountains next month. If you see my original post, I believe I can control shifting better through the mountains with the MSG than the Automatic in "D" which kept shifting up/down up/down up/down constantly with the elevation changes and tight corners

to check fluid here's an old backyard trick that actually does work. first, stick to your owners manual. not less or more kms, just do it. second, pull the dipstick. put some of the fluid on your index finger. it should look a pink/red colour most describe it as cherry red. not brown or black. next smell it. should smell like oil and NOT burnt. if its got a burned smell something is up. next rub the fluid between your fingers, should not feel gitty and should be just like any other oil. if it fails those tests then you may have a problem, usually start with a fluid flush and filter change and go from there. in some cases a cooler may fix it if you're towing for example.

that all makes sense. I want to change the oil (18,000 km interval coming up!) before I hit some challenging roads with the 2009 Tucson. Then later that month, my wife is heading through the BC mountains with the Tucson so a quick inspection of the trans fluid is in order before summer

final word of advice: your warranty is through hyundai NOT the dealer. if in doubt, contact hyundai and NOT the idiot stealers. if they're going to fix it fine, but if they say anything questionable then contact the manufacturer. also remember that there are laws governing what they can and cant do as far as voiding your warranty. know those, not what the guys that have something to gain say.
I'm still considering adding the trans-axle cooler. thanks for the words of advice, sero_gravity...
 
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