Hyundai Forum: Hyundai Performance Forum banner

1 - 20 of 51 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hi all,
Been a while since i posted.
I saved enough cash for my setup.
I am a Korean living in South Africa.
Since all the suckers here rip ppl off i decided to buy bits for my turbo
when i was visiting Korea.
I know it should be same in the states:)
Anyways this is what i got...
Hope Photo's are clear!

1. Turbo Manifold
2. Oil cooler kit
3. Intercooler (no photo)
4 Siemens 630 CC injectors
5. Diffuser
6. Low compression Gasket (3,5-4mm thick)


I intend on using the car everyday and do speeds of 120km on the highway. Reason im telling you this is because i need most of my fuel economy and dont want the turbo to spool (if possible) at 120km/h.
Performance i want is to keep up to subaru's and m3's robot to robot!

Few Question with noting above:
1. What turbo is possible that will mount onto this Manifold
2. Is it true i will lower oil pressure and make the system inefficient by adding the oil cooler
3. What stand alone computer is best?
4. What spec fuel pump
5. What spec diffuser.
6. I want the boost to be stable... so i dont want to use the internal wastegated turbo(Am i correct to say this)

All in all i need a very reliable system and one that can be programmed to economic(for daily use) and Performance on track!

By the way i have all the spares for Hyundai, Daewoo, Kia as my dad is selling parts in South Africa. I mean i got it all Body parts Engines whatever!!! So how can i use it to my advantage?

Thanks! Any input is appreciated!
I know how people are on posts...
Please dont diss on this post. Just keeep it friendly!



















 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,351 Posts
That looks like a standard T3 turbo flange.

The turbo is going to spool no matter what on the highway. But you might get maybe 1-2 psi. Unless you give it some throttle then you will build boost.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Hey guys thanx for the input.
Ok so whatever size the turbo it will spin at 120... even if driving economically.

What size turbo will be more economic? I want the turbo to start spooling
at around 3500RPM. I think T3/4 will be ok?
Or is the spoolup controlled by the ECU(standalone)

Can you please advice me on the questions i asked.
Regarding the Turbo question. Please state the exact garret or halset no. with specification so that i can tell the shop on the phone and they will know the exact one i am talking about...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,787 Posts
the turbo is going to spool no matter what. the question is all a matter of how much throttle your giving it and at what rpm the car is at. Mine is a 14b off a Mitsubishi, Its spools full throttle at 3k rpm...but anything less than 30% throttle and it does not build boost...so again its all about how much throttle your giving it and at what rpm.

Also I feel the decompression gasket is not necisary. You can run a safe yet powerful boost pressure with the cars stock engine. You'll only really want the gasket if you plan on running HUGE psi (14+) or a HUge turbo...in any case its not nessicary because you just need to biuld the engines internals and you can be just fine with the compression the way it is.

Oil cooler is not really needed either...they use it on rally cars because they are driving for MILES on boost and boost creates a lot of heat. Not sure but i don't think Subies, Evos or even Audis or Saabs use oil coolers on their market cars. I may be wrong.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
687 Posts
1. What kind of power are you looking for? You will not be able to keep up with any M3, but you may be able to take Subaru's that are lightly modded. Having a 2.0L engine is also going to be kinda... hindering? Have you looked into actually doing an engine swap? If you're goal is beating M3's, maybe a 4G63 from a DSM would be the choice. Using a 4G64 block from a 2000+ Eclipse + a 4G63 head would make you a LETHAL 2.4L stroker turbo with a lot of low end torque.

2. Your oil cooler should'nt decrease your oil pressure at all. You have an oil pressure regulator that should keep your oil at a constant pressure setting. The oil cooler is neccessary mainly due to the extra stress added by the turbo. The turbo will be cooled and lubricated by your oil lines and it'll help GREATLY!

3. Fuel pump? Your choice of fuel pump is actually dependant on how much boost you're actually going to be pushing through your vehicle. If you're aiming at 16+psi and your current injectors, I'd look at goin for a Walboro 255 lp/hr turbo. This should be enough to feed your engine and not having to worry about fuel cut.

4. Diffuser? I am going to assume that you're looking for an intercooler? This is also dependant on how you're going to be using it. You haven't really posted whp goals or PSI goals, so it'll be kinda hard to judge.

5. YOU NEED A WASTEGATE. Without one, your turbo will spool and it will not stop spooling because the exhaust gas will continuously feed your turbo. I would recommend a 38mm Tial wastegate because they're tried and true. They are one of the most reliable wastegastes on the market and will last you a long time.

Turbos are a headache and a half if you're not used to them.

Howie~
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
The 630cc injectors you have will effect your economy a lot, if you are going to run stock pistons your tuner will run a "wet" tune to reduce the head soak into your pistons. I'm running 440cc in a 1.8 and around town I've dropped nearly 300km from a fuel tank of hi octane fuel, down from 500 to 200. The tune however is very how you say experimental, I'm upgrading my pistons and rods to kope with the 15+psi i chuck into it. Choice of computer is up to you, all stand alone ecu's will do the job, piggy back is out of the question with Hyundai, well without some serious thinking, but even then, good luck.
Go for the Walbro pump, its a great item. Don't forget that you will need to add an oil return port into your sump so the oil can drain back into the system from the turbo, using braided teflon lines is also good as well, hot oil will send most rubber lines brittle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Hey Guys!
Thanks for coming through and giving your advice...
I am reading maximum boost as we speak.
It is very infomative...
Fintile:
I know now that the turbo will only spool according to how much throttle you give it.
About the 14b turbo... is there a garret or holset no. for that turbo? and how big is it
T2,5 or what?
The reason why i purchased the decompression gasket is because i have seen
my buddies Honda SR4 engine balade 1,6 blowing out tons of white smoke.. while he
was racing with me. His his turbo blew that day. He was boosting 0.7 bars on stock internals
He was intercooled. But running stock injectors(Piggy back system).
The Turbo was a small turbo though(T2.5).
Anyone knows why this happens.. we werent even racing for long...
I also remember his car would heat up when driving slow and if throttled it would cool down.
All in all it was a **** system that ended him killing the car and scrapping it.
I dont want this to happen to me... Hence the Oil cooler to control temperature. As
South Africa is hot most of the year round.
I drive around 150KM's a day... and dont want an all out performance car.. even if it means
loosing to M3's i would rather keep my fuel consumption efficient.

Asian 907 :
I am looking for around150Kilowatts on the wheels??? Looking to boost maximum 1 bar on
track days and 0.5-0.7 daily driving!
An engine swop is out of the question because mistusbishi's are not really common in South Africa.
And also i want to keep it Hyundai!
I already do have an intercooler... Just didnt post pictures yet.
I was too thinking of the Walbro 255.
I just want a reliable system.
I dont know if the stock engine will like to be boosed... Hence the decompression gasket.

Slamedlantra:
The 630CC injectors are too big... i agree... as i have read mnay posts and non stat this big injectors.
but cant they be tuned by the standalone to only
send enough fuel???... i mean just send as much as the 440CC can deliver?
Your economy has dropped alot... 500-200... Damn... seriously thinkin the other way if it is like that.
So even if i have a standalone the 630CC injectors will be wasting my fuel?

Guys given the info that South Africa is very hot... and also that i want to run 0.5- 0.7bar boost daily and
1.0 when im racing. I am faced with the question to use or not use the decompression gasket...
I need an efficient system. even if it mean compromising on the power.
When light footed driving i want my economy but i wont mind if full throttleing my efficiency drops alot.
Knowing this... Any advice on which turbo size?
Thanks again
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
injectors to big will just be harder to tune. You will need a good stand alone to bring the injector pulse time down so low that its only open for a super short period of time. Getting a smaller injector will be a better fix. If you want lower compression change the piston, if your going to crack the head off, you should do it right, maximum boost will tell you the same thing.
My engine before it blew was making 156kw at the front wheels on 12psi my setup went like this
-t25g garret turbo
- custom exhaust manifold
-custom 3" exhaust
- 440cc bosch injectors
- malpassi rising rate fule reg (with autometer pressure gauge)
- walbro 255
- blitz spec-s boost controler
- 600x400x50 intercooler
- platnum spark plugs
- microtec lt10-s standalone ecu
- boost, oil pressure, oil temp and air/fule ratio gauges
- motul turbo light synthetic oil
- motul inugel coolent

I'm still not sure why my engine went, i think the hot plugs may have something to do with it, i'll find out when i pull it down.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
687 Posts
*cringe*

Whatever you do... STAY AWAY FROM PLATINUM PLUGS! This mainly applies to turbo applications. Copper plugs are both cheaper and are better conductors, and they will not foul as quickly as platinum plugs. I tried them and I started to knock a couple days later.

For the power you're looking for, 440 cc injectors are plenty. Instead of the T25 turbo, I'd look into getting a Garret T28 turbo. It's a much nicer turbo, and should be fairly easy to find.

If you're lookin for economy... Keep your Elantra the way it is. If you turbo it, you'll probably only get 1/2 the mileage and you'll have to use at least 91 octane if not higher.

HOwie~
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
686 Posts
reason your friends setup blew because it was probably not tuned right.

back to lowering your compression, if you want to be safe lower your compression, it'll put less stress on everything. If you ask anyone the decompression plate isn't the way to go, just because it changes the shape of the cylinder. The right, and best way to do it is getting low comp. pistons.

0.5-0.7 bar will be fine stock with a good tune, you'll lose power if you lower the compression.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Ok, so now i have to find smaller injectors...
Ok like i said i have all the Hyundai's OEM injectors in stock!
So how many CC's are the Sonata 95-98 injectors?
Or maybe i should swop them with someone...
Damn... Was too Hasty to buy the injectors..
Anyways im sure someone will want them in S.A
since everyone is crazy about tuning here!

Slamedlantra sorry to hear your setup blew.
It seems like you have a decent setup...
Let us know... so we can learn too.
I have engines in my shop and head and blocks too.
But i dont want to replace my engine ever...
So i have to stay safe...
I have also heard from korean tuners when i was there
that i can lower the compression by using the 1,8 pistons!
Is it just fit the 1,8 pistons with 1,8 rings???
Am i right to say that lowering the compression is a safer(cooler) setup?

Asian 907 i see you have advised the Garret T28.
Can you please give me a proper turbo number that i can give
to the turbo shop so that i can purchase it.
Is this turbo Oil and water cooled?
I do have a H-100 hyundai truck for work...
We just purchased it.. so it looks like if economy is too bad
after the turbo then i will use the truck for work..
Will i only get half milage even if driving with a light foot?

Joefro I remember i friends setup blew because he was supposed
to get it dyno tuned... but was too happy about his turbo car
that he ignored it... what a noob. Hehe
So if im only going to boost 0.5-0.7 it wont put alot of stress
on the Stock engine without changing the pistons?

After reading what you guys have told me i have decided on the following:
1. If my stock engine can handle 0.5-0.7bar without changing pistons then
i will do this. Later i will change the piston.
but if changing it is better please let me know because i have new
1,8 pistons and rings on the shelf.
2. Get smaller injectors.
3. Turbo size will be T28 or T3(Which one is more economy?)
1 Question. Will lowering compression effect economy in a better way???
Thanks Alot for all the info guys!
I await more advice. Thanks alot.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
im lowering mine to 9.5 to 1 instead of 10 to 1. getting the wiesco item. yeah as for plugs i think they where to hot. expensive lesson learned. another good thing to do is get a good thread sealent for all your nuts and bolts oil lines and water lines. just makes sure they all stay put. loctite do a product clled 557 thread lock its good stuff pressure resistant to.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
687 Posts
What kind of stand alone was your friend using?!

A good stand alone will tell you when your engine is knocking and what codes are popping and when they do pop. If you're running plugs that are too hot or too cold, your engine will either start knocking or will misfire.

T3 turbos are good, but it's a tad big if you're only going to be running 0.5-0.7bar. A T25 is small enough and will boost strong for those numbers, but anything above 1.0 bar, it'll be ineffciient. A T28 will produce good numbers until around 1.4 bar (18 psi). For your goals, your injectors are a tad too big. For your compression numbers, the best for turbo set ups is around 8.5:1. That's kinda hard to reach, but every little bit counts. The 1.8 pistons will lower your compression from what I remember, and it will help a tad. About economy, I wouldn't know... I had a Eagle Talon Tsi-AWD and I averaged 14-15 miles per gallon and that's with normal daily driving. I used to average 18 before I upgraded the injectors and turbo and D/D boost pressure.

Howie~
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
So i think what would be good is to get the T28 so that will
leave me space to boost to 1 bar when i feel like upping the performance.
Can someone please give me the Garret or Holset no. for a T28.
And will any T28 fit my manifold flange?
I dont think so...
Asian 907 I see your eagle talon didnt loose too~ much economy.
What turbo, injector and turbo size was it using? And how big was
that engine? 2 Litre?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
Im using a mircotec lt-10s. it is reporting a code but it has never misfired or pinged ever. the engine did have 140k of distance on it so maybe it was just alittle tired.
ill have to plug it in and see what its problem is
the t25 spools up around 2,500 to 3,000 rpm its good, gets the torque up quick to, i have 210 wide front tires and they howl in first and second, still pulls like a train to, plus a bit of smoke just to cap it off......i miss my car.
if you really have a bit of money, get a gt2860r disco potato, very nice ballbearing turbo, you will be touque stearing your head off!!
are you building it up yourself or is a mechaic going to do it?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
687 Posts
The thing though, the car came stock turboed.

You can buy 1st Generation Eclipse/Talon/Lasers with the 4G63 engines without the turbo, and they actually run constant 28mpg. I'm going to assume you currently have the same economy, but with the turbo, every single bar of pressure you increase basically doubles the amount of fuel you use.

The 4G63 is a 2L engine and I put a lot of pure love into it. I ran a EvoIII Big 16g turbo at 8psi at daily driving and 16-18 psi (around 1.5 bar) at the track. I was using a Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution 560cc injectors, Walboro 255L/hr fuel pump, AEM fuel rail and fuel pressure regulator, and a XS autochrome FMIC. My boost controler was a mechanical Joe P IL series MBC and I loved it!

Howie~
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Hey guys i am looking at Garrett GT28RS Disco Potato.
I can get it from a supplier of my dads for $1000.
Will this fit on my turbo manifold?
By the way my car is MAP based and is non VVTI
The mechanic is doing my turbo for me...
Alot of my customers are mechanics specialising with Hyundai.
So its just a matter of choosing which one...

Yo slamedlantra i see you have put refered to the Disco Potatoe as garrett gt2860r.
Why did i find GT28RS(60mm, 62 Trim, 0,6 A/r) name from the supplier
and he named it Disco Potatoe too...
Is $1000 cheap for this turbo? It is brand new!
I can also get cheaper ones that are replica(Imitations)
It is around $550 new. But that is from a factory...
Does it really matter?

It comes with 1 year warranty!!!(True warranty)

Asian sorry... I never knew the Talon came stock with Turbo.
I think its because in South AFrica we dont get those mistubishi cars.
Another thing... If i use a full stand alone do i need a RRFR?

Thanks alot. Please keep in mind my car is MAP.
Is it better turbo map or maf???
I think MAP!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,787 Posts
J0eFr0 said:
reason your friends setup blew because it was probably not tuned right.

back to lowering your compression, if you want to be safe lower your compression, it'll put less stress on everything. If you ask anyone the decompression plate isn't the way to go, just because it changes the shape of the cylinder. The right, and best way to do it is getting low comp. pistons.

0.5-0.7 bar will be fine stock with a good tune, you'll lose power if you lower the compression.
Thats pretty much what I was getting at with what I said about it...well said.

Personally I still dont see why the oil cooler is needed. All in all if you use good oil and dont push anything past .7 bar you shouldn't have any problems. With a good tune your car should run great as is, just upgrade the fuel system a bit. Again if HUGE numbers aren't your goal then just listen to what they all just said before me: 440cc injectors, good tune, at least a 190 fuel pump.
 
1 - 20 of 51 Posts
Top