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Discussion Starter #1
OK, this comes from:
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
If all that BS <img src=/images/forums/snitz/angry.gif width=15 height=15 border=0> about mods for Hondas were true, we could see 1.6 4 cil Civics beating ass from BMWs 330i <img src=/images/forums/snitz/evil.gif width=15 height=15 border=0> . I don't think it's possible to gain more than 10 - 15 % HP in a 4 cil. without having your internals (pistons, con rods, valves, valve springs, camshafts, crankshaft and manifolds, even flywheel) balanced and worked up or replaced. <img src=/images/forums/snitz/finger.gif width=33 height=15 border=0><hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
Uh...batlord managed 16.5% without the BTM or BIM. That was also without ECU tuning, and with a 4-2-1 header rather than a 4-1 header.
More than 15% is easily possible without touching internals, but I would say 20-25% is the limit, not 15%.
Yes, you can see Civic's beating 330's. The 330's are DAMN FRICKING HEAVY!
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If we could establish kind of Stages for engine mods, like Stage 1: CAI, Exhaust header, BBTB (arond 8 HP); Stage 2: BIM, ECU, Cams (around 16 HP overall), Stage 3 etc, etc, what would you suggest? I'm starting, so it would be very nice to discuss this from your experience.<img src=/images/forums/snitz/wink.gif width=15 height=15 border=0>


<hr noshade width=60% size=1 align=left>Zman
H&R Springs/KYB GR2 Shocks/SR Strut Bars (F&R)
Future: CAI / BBTB
 

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umm.. I dunno who said that a BWM 3series is fast.. well there not.. like he said to heavy. Don't make me look up the stats again... <img src=/images/forums/snitz/angry.gif width=15 height=15 border=0> The M3 is a diffrent story all together.....


<hr width=60% noshade size=1 align=left>WytchDctr
1.6 DOHC 16v
5-speed
www.geocities.com/accentpage
"Ew Ei Ew Ah AH big bang.. wallawalla.. bing bang..
Ew Ei Ew ah ah Bing Bang wallawalla bing bang"
 

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"Stages" are absolutely pointless. They are totally meaningless. I could tell you I have a Stage Four N/A Tiburon and you wouldn't know **** about how it performs. It also wouldn't tell you the QUALITY of the parts I used.

Let's take this example... We all SAY that Stage Four has the following parts:
Intake
Ported throttlebody
Ported Intake Manifold
Ported Cylinder Head
3-angle valve job
Cams
4-1 Header
Free-flow Cat
Full Exhaust
ECU upgrade

Ok, so what can this Stage Four car do? Well, what if you used a short-ram intake instead of a cold air intake? What if you used a 58mm throttlebody instead of a 62mm throttlebody? What if your manifold was only ported 3mm oversize instead of 8mm oversize? What if your cylinder head was taken only a few millimeters over instead of "hogged out"? What if your cams are 252 instead of 272? What if your 4-1 header is about the same lenth as your forearm and has a 2 inch collector instead of a 24" tuned section and 2.5" collector? What if your ECU is a total ripoff and gives you zero power?

You have NO CLUE what stage four means, because you have no idea what parts they used to make their claim. It's totally pointless.

As such, it's also totally pointless to claim that a "Stage Four" N/A Tiburon will make (x) amount of power -- for all the reasons I listed above.

I absolutely positively abhor and verbally bitchslap anyone who starts quoting me their entire car mods as some sort of "Stage", unless they bought it specifically as such. I know that Clutchmasters makes their clutches in "stages", so that is appropriate. I know that some VW shops sell turbo kits in "stages", so there it's appropriate too.

But just to slap a shytload of parts onto your car and claim "Hey, it's a Stage 18!" is stupid.

-Red-
 

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Oh yes, and for (whoever's) information, a 100% increase on a 4-banger engine is prettydamn simple and requires none of the parts they describe.

It's called nitrous.

-Red-
 

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<img src=/images/forums/snitz/smile.gif width=15 height=15 border=0><img src=/images/forums/snitz/laugh.gif width=15 height=31 border=0><img src=/images/forums/snitz/laugh.gif width=15 height=31 border=0><img src=/images/forums/snitz/laugh.gif width=15 height=31 border=0><img src=/images/forums/snitz/laugh.gif width=15 height=31 border=0><img src=/images/forums/snitz/smile.gif width=15 height=15 border=0>

Red's got a point.


<hr width=60% noshade size=1 align=left>Sharks have been known to eat horses!
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I absolutely positively abhor and verbally bitchslap anyone who starts quoting me their entire car mods as some sort of "Stage<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

<img src=/images/forums/snitz/laugh.gif width=15 height=31 border=0> I think I just found my new sig.<img src=/images/forums/snitz/thumbup.gif width=25 height=18 border=0>


<hr width=60% noshade size=1 align=left><img src="http://www.transfans.com/logospin.gif"><b>No I do not have a 2000 Tib anymore. My X now has a 2000 Tib. No I am not mad cause she has the payments too.</b><img src=/images/forums/snitz/wink.gif width=15 height=15 border=0>
 

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Discussion Starter #7
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
"Stages" are absolutely pointless. They are totally meaningless...
Ok, so what can this Stage Four car do? Well, what if you used a short-ram intake instead of a cold air intake? What if you used a 58mm throttlebody instead of a 62mm throttlebody?...
You have NO CLUE what stage four means, because you have no idea what parts they used to make their claim...
As such, it's also totally pointless to claim that a "Stage Four" N/A Tiburon will make (x) amount of power -- for all the reasons I listed above.
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I agree with you completely, maybe my mistake was to use the word "STAGE" which has a special meaning for ppl selling things. What I was trying to ask is advice for STEPS, what where your (all of you out there) suggestions to start with based on personal experiences.
IMO what you do to your car is for strictly personal gratification, to go over there mentioning the "Stage" of your car is as going over there mentioning the size of your organ (and we know ppl that do it is because they need to fool themselves <img src=/images/forums/snitz/evil.gif width=15 height=15 border=0><img src=/images/forums/snitz/moon.gif width=15 height=15 border=0>)



<hr width=60% noshade size=1 align=left>Zman
H&R Springs/KYB GR2 Shocks/SR Strut Bars (F&R)
Future: CAI / BBTB
 

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Get a ful exhaust, CAI, BBTB, and a BIM. Then get cams. Port and polish the head. Blueprint and balance the engine, stroker crank, high comp psitons, stronger conrods, and upgrade the fuel system and ecu.<img src=/images/forums/snitz/thumbup.gif width=25 height=18 border=0>


<hr width=60% noshade size=1 align=left><img src="http://www.freakygamers.com/smilies/s2/games/dbz/dragonball-piccilo2.gif">

<b>KORE Crew #19</b>

"It's not the contest between racers that really matters, but the abstract dialogue between the soul of a racer and his machine." -Racer X
 

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I know prices vary from shop to shop but how much can you guestimate a port and polish costing? Just want an idea so I can throw it somewhere in my list of mods in the future.


<hr width=60% noshade size=1 align=left>2001 Hyundai Tiburon FX 5-Speed Cardinal Red <img src="http://www.plauder-smilies.de/devil/firedevil.gif">
Just bought it so there are no mods :)

Future mods:
Shortshifter
Cams
Ram Air Intake
Exhaust (headers->muffler)
BBTB -> IM
 

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The "typical" price of a port and polish depends on how much work you want done, who's doing it, how "reputable" they supposedly are and how much they want to bend you over for that day :D

I've seen cylinder head work go for as little as $150 for just a "clean up" job, or as much as $1500 for a "race full Jesus Motha" job. I've seen Nascar heads go for $6000 a pair (need two heads for a V motor) Mostly it just depends on what they're asking and how much you trust them.

I'll never spend $6000, I might spend $1500 if I absolutely knew the headwork was worth it, but quite honestly I've got a guy doing my "project" head for $400.

However, keep in mind that I'm not quoting ANY labor costs or maching costs... After spending $400 on the headwork, I'll still have to spend $50 on having the head "surfaced" so that it seals well against the engine.

I would expect no less than $200 USD just for the labor involved, probably more... You have to pull all the valves, springs, retainers and retainer locks out to do the work. And more fundamentally, you have to pull the head OFF the engine as well.

Since I pulled the head off myself, and removed all the valves/springs/retainers/locks myself, I'm only paying the actual cost of his work rather than a buttload of labor.

-Red-
 

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i totally agree with you red even though tis topic might be cold. i ask people what they have done to their cars like a port/polish and ask them how far they took it and they say a stage 1. what bs on what stages are because when i want to do work on my car and find out how far they take i make the shop make a work order and i get a copy so i can tell people how far this shop will go. so any dingleberry that quotes stages of their cars should be slapped and called a b*tch<img src=/images/forums/snitz/mad.gif width=16 height=16 border=0>


<hr width=60% noshade size=1 align=left>i give the honest performance facts and if i i don't know it i will tell you because i am not some riceboy*****
 

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I think people are hooked on labling their cars by stages because of video games. Some people still think that what they learned in Grand Turismo or Toxyo Extreme Racer translates to real life. It does not. I understand that for conversational purposes, it may be nice to be able to say "My car is a Stage 4 Tiberon." But it really means nothing. Just tell people how many foot pounds of torque you have, it serves the same purpose.

Or Maybe I'm an idiot!<img src=/images/forums/snitz/disapprove.gif width=15 height=15 border=0>


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I agreed, stages are for guys who like to pay in stages of cash outlay.

No matter what you do, if done incorrectly it really doesn't matter.... dyno graphs or 1/4 mile slips is all that matters.

I have seen full bore NA tibbys put out anywhere from 150 - 200 wheel hp. This is with EVERYTHING.... all the previously listed stuff including NO cat, multi throttle intake, cam gears, 12:1 compression pistons, Haltech E6K.


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