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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
After I get the torsional damper done for the Beta engine, I may a sum of money left over. I am going to contact a company by the name of Magnuson Products about a super charger kit tomorrow, for the Tiburon. They are experienced at running supercharged application on mass air flow vehicles and currently build the supercharger kit for the 2.4 Cavalier. I am going to see if they would be able to borrow a Tiburon to mock up the kit or see how a much the MP112 or MP90 super charger is and have the kit fabricated locally. Let me know what you think, if you may be interested. I am just trying hard to stay away from turbos. By the way they are Eaton superchargers, so they will last a long time.




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Edited by - HRD_Tiburon on 02/05/2002 9:00:12 PM
 

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I'm interested<img src=/images/forums/snitz/thumbup.gif width=25 height=18 border=0>


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The MP112 or MP90 would be a bigger blower than the folks at Rimmer were using by quite a bit. Might be good for a bit more boost at cooler intake temperatures.

You know what though? I'd be really curious to see if someone was interested in a centrifugal blower setup rather than a roots blower. These cars have plenty of grunt on the bottom end and an Eaton roots blower just makes it that much "fatter". But with a centrigual blower, perhaps we could get a big fistful of power where the BETA consistanly lags: on the top end.

Still, an M90 based blower would be cool<img src=/images/forums/snitz/wink.gif width=15 height=15 border=0>

-Red-
 

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Centrifugal? I've never seen that. Probably more spool time, almost like a turbo? Any examples?


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Actually Red

I was looking in to a centrifugal blower myself, but it will be for the 2.7L.

When I actually have the car in my possession and put about 10,000 kms on it, I will be picking maybe yours, Cheuk's and a couple other people's brains.

I am no tech head but just what ever I pick up here on the site. <img src=/images/forums/snitz/wink.gif width=15 height=15 border=0>

Been doing a bit of research on the odd site.

I figure also, a TT or single turbo on a V6 is gonna be a pain in the ass to be honest, thats why I think supercharger or N2O would be best. I am running a 2.5L DELTA with 55 shots (Cheuk said with just a fuel pump its good till 90 shot) but hate having to refill all the time.


<hr width=60% noshade size=1 align=left>1999 Hyundai Sonata GL V6
H7 Blue Eurolite
GLS Chrome Grill
Custom Intake/Header/Exhaust
55 shot Nitrous Express

--no longer with me--
1997 Hyundai Tiburon
Was a brave soul when combating the evil forces.


Edited by - Smiley on 02/06/2002 12:49:09 PM
 

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Centrifugal blowers work like "half a turbo". You have the compressor side which looks almost identical to the compressor assembly of a turbo... But rather than interfacing with your exhaust, it's belt driven.

Centrifugals don't do a lot for low-end power, but they just keep making more and more boost until redline. Usually your horsepower curve on the dyno NEVER comes down, it just keeps going and going until you hit the revlimiter<img src=/images/forums/snitz/tongue.gif width=15 height=15 border=0>

The other cool part of these is, because they don't need to sit on the intake manifold like a roots blower, you can intercool them MUCH easier and also don't have to use a custom intake manifold. You DO unfortunately have to find a way to drive it with a belt, so it still can be difficult.

For people who want to know more, search for "Vortec supercharger" for the Civic Si.

-Red-
 

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I remember seeing the ads in SCC for the Vortec. "Bolt on 95 HP" was the tagline I remember. Thanks for the knowledge<img src=/images/forums/snitz/smile.gif width=15 height=15 border=0>


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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
The roots blower would be the manifold, it would be turned on its side in the rear of the engine. I am also looking at Vortec V-trim and the ATI Procharger. I want a supercharger kit that can equal a turbo output. The fit is real tight.


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Edited by - HRD_Tiburon on 02/06/2002 3:17:34 PM
 

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HRD,

Are you going to go with strengthened internals?... Pistons?

I think for supercharging... intercooling is key. One of the reasons that the Autorotor and Eaton superchargers were having minimal gains was the high intake charge temps, that combined with 87 or 89 octane fuel. The attempts at intercooling these superchargers were never that successful.

A Centrifical supercharger would make a nice bolt on system with an intercooler. I don't think anyone has successfully performed a centrifical supercharger install here in Korea.. I can't remember but one of the smaller shops was trying to do it. Superchargers went out of favor competely. We had our own Rimmer fiasco. I'm pretty sure that one of the bigger shop ( I'll withhold the name) has a large inventory of the older cut and weld and newer cast intake manifolds for the Autorotor and maybe a dozen Autorotor superchargers... just sitting around.


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I actually sent an e-mail to Red about this Cheuk cause I was looking a bit into it.

Major problem that I see is that the 'drive pulley's' if thats the right word are located on the 'left' side of the engine, and the intake piping is located on the 'right' side of the engine. I think every Hyundai engine (don't quote me) has this same setup.

Best centrifugal setup I could find was on a Honda S2000. The drive pulleys are located at the front of the car which makes it PERFECT when you look at it for the setup. I sent Red the picture of the S2000 and how thats setup, and then a picture of the 2.5L Delta (2.0L he obviously knows how its setup) to show where I think we are stumbling.

IF you move your first part of the intake to the left side all cramped up you will still have to figure out a way to create piping to go all the way back to the intake manifold with at LEAST 3 bends and depending on which way you decide to go, its going to be a very long distance.

Since you can't easily or better yet AT ALL swap around which way the drive pulley's go, if someone ever came up with an intake manifold that was flipped the opposite way (clean air coming from the left side of the engine, same as the drive pulley's), the centrifugal setup will work. Till then, I don't see a centrifugal setup working, unless well Red, Cheuk or a couple other tech heads coming out with a new innovation to push that air that extra distance. Please note too, if its solved on the 2.0L or the 2.7L or any other engine from Hyundai or others for that matter, this idea can be incorporated into the other engines in the setup.

Although, I would seriously be interested in Red's idea about the intercooler.

If theoritically we/I can get all this to work and still see between 40-50% (250-270 crank hp) jump to gain on the 2.7L I would seriously consider doing it. It would be still be far below what the predicted 300hp (not sure if you guys were saying crank or wheel) of what the engine could handle.

Then the documentation can be sent to probally 4doorGL and its just a matter of using some hookups and we got a supercharger kit for the V6 <img src=/images/forums/snitz/wink.gif width=15 height=15 border=0>. If you guys don't mind of course.


<hr width=60% noshade size=1 align=left>1999 Hyundai Sonata GL V6
H7 Blue Eurolite
GLS Chrome Grill
Custom Intake/Header/Exhaust
55 shot Nitrous Express

--no longer with me--
1997 Hyundai Tiburon
Was a brave soul when combating the evil forces.


Edited by - Smiley on 02/07/2002 05:35:45 AM
 

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maybe I don't have a clear understanding, but with an intercooler, wouldn't the centrifugal supercharger work... wouldn't the setup be s/c -> intercooler -> manifold? or would it still be intercooler -> s/c -> manifold


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Just for arguments sake, wouldn't a roots blower SC with say, a 65 shot of NOS, give you a pretty good mix of low and high-end power? I would use the low-end power more anyhow, and if I needed more, NOS would fill the gap.


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I m not going to say much to avoid complications, I won't be able to look up the answer to your question scrtdrvr till after work, I don't have time to hardcore surf.

But if its the first case you mentioned where its s/c -> intercooler -> intake then thats sweet, I think it could work!

But if its intercooler -> s/c -> intake we are back to square one. <img src=/images/forums/snitz/disapprove.gif width=15 height=15 border=0>

Though when I looked at the S2000 (the picture is at home), the intercooler goes before the supercharger.

Using physics, I think you would want the intercooler to go before the supercharger as to allow for the molecules to become smaller and therefore increase the air flow and having more air molecules flowing through the supercharger.


<hr width=60% noshade size=1 align=left>1999 Hyundai Sonata GL V6
H7 Blue Eurolite
GLS Chrome Grill
Custom Intake/Header/Exhaust
55 shot Nitrous Express

--no longer with me--
1997 Hyundai Tiburon
Was a brave soul when combating the evil forces.
 

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well if I understand correctly... with turbo app I assumed that the set-up was turbo -> intercooler -> intake...

basically in this order... speed it up, cool it down, then burn the hell out of it...

if that is correct, I can't see why we wouldn't be able to adapt a supercharger to the same aspect.


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Edited by - scrtdrvr on 02/07/2002 09:24:18 AM
 

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The entire reason for an intercooler is to "cool off" the compressed air, therefore it must come AFTER whatever device compresses the air. Thus:

SC -> Intercooler -> Manifold
Turbo -> Intercooler -> Manifold

I saw the pictures you sent, but I haven't had a lot of time to sit down and think about them hardcore. The Civic Si has the exact same problem as the V6 engine; the belts are on one side, the intake is on the other side. Vortec got around this problem with their kit by making a "transfer shaft"... The pulley for the blower is on the same side as the belts, but that pulley is connected to a long shaft that goes across the engine bay and "plugs in" to the blower assembly.

The manufacturing tolerances for such a feat are VERY small, so you'd have to get a very reputable company (or take a lot of your own time) to do it right.

But to mirror what Cheuk mentioned, the Civic Si crowd with their Jackson Racing Eaton-based supercharger kits usually don't make a lot of power (the strongest one I've ever seen is about 224WHP) mostly because of heat. BUT, when combined with even a small shot of nitrous, the immense cooling makes HUGE amounts of power. I've seen a 35 shot sprayed into a 10psi supercharged Civic Si and it gained 64 wheel horsepower. <img src=/images/forums/snitz/eek.gif width=15 height=15 border=0>

Shows you how much heat soak they're dealing with...

-Red-
 

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based off of Red's answer (my initial understanding) the centrifugal would work as long as two thing are met. We can adapt the supercharger's output to go directly the intercooler while securing that mutha to the block...

too bad it sounds easier than it looks... I noticed that most s/c's bolt directly to the intake manifold... in which case it sucks to be us... if we can find one where the output resembles the end of the stock intake manifold, then we're in business. (I don't think that makes much sense, but I have a clear picture in my head...) I'm sure that helps you guys... not!




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Those centrifugal blowers (is it centrifical, or centrifugal?) work almost exactly like a turbo, when you're talking about the piping involved. They don't have to "plug into" anything, you just run the pipes where you want.

The problem isn't finding an intercooler that fits or making sure the outlet matches the manifold -- it's immaterial. The problem is getting that "transfer shaft" built and stable.

-Red-
 

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The Eaton Model 90 supercharger was engineered for 3.0L to 5.7L passenger cars and light truck engines. It was designed as a compact, flexible supercharger for increased power without adversely affecting fuel economy. The M90 has proven to be suitable for other engine sizes depending on overall system requirements.

Most installations see a realistic 40% plus increase in power output.

<b>Eaton Superchargers will work effectively in any orientation (Flat, upside down, on edge).</b>

(Red I think this is what you are referring to)<b>Different length drives are available, giving the custom installer flexibility in the placement of the supercharger.</b>

The M90 is available for counter rotating engines (2 Piece Drive).

A Bypass Valve is included with every supercharger, two different Bypass Valves are available, one that mounts directly on the intake port, and one for remote mount


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Edited by - scrtdrvr on 02/07/2002 09:40:34 AM
 

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info available at

http://www.magnusonproducts.com/magnuson_products_superchargers.htm


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