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I was at a web site, I forgot which one. Anyways there was a bbtb for Honda and Acura and the discription of it was saying that they could expect up to a 15 hp gain with it. Is this true or bullshit. If it's true why can't the one for a Tibby put out that much <img src=/images/forums/snitz/moon.gif width=15 height=15 border=0>


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it's BS, someone here will put up the BS FLAG...

many many honda companies put up these weird numbers that with a 4cyl is just impossible with one mod... I had one friend that owns a HONDA tell me that all HONDAS with a header should gain close to 20-30hp from a header if not it should be returned, just cause that company claimed it... sorry just impossible


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Yeah, even magazines give false hp, Like a DTM cheapo muffler adding 5-9 HP, I call bullshit on that aswell, They just keep adding the Rice to the frying pan. Ohwell the bs will never end.


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On our Beta Motors, the BTB and BIM combo gave 3.5 HP and 3.3 Ft lbs of torque. That was with the stock airbox. It might be higher or lower with a CAI.

BTB's are usually just for better throttle response, and maybe a TAD bit of HP on the top end and a TAD bid of torque in the mid range.

I'm digging around on my computers for old dyno's. With luck, I'll find that one, and I can compare the stock run vs the BTB/BIM run and we can ALL see where the gains are.


<hr width=60% noshade size=1 align=left>Leave it to Random to Needlessly complicate things.
 

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If all that BS <img src=/images/forums/snitz/angry.gif width=15 height=15 border=0> about mods for Hondas were true, we could see 1.6 4 cil Civics beating ass from BMWs 330i <img src=/images/forums/snitz/evil.gif width=15 height=15 border=0> . I don't think it's possible to gain more than 10 - 15 % HP in a 4 cil. without having your internals (pistons, con rods, valves, valve springs, camshafts, crankshaft and manifolds, even flywheel) balanced and worked up or replaced. <img src=/images/forums/snitz/finger.gif width=33 height=15 border=0>


<hr width=60% noshade size=1 align=left>Zman
H&R Springs/KYB Shocks/SR Strut Bars (F&R)
Future: CAI / BBT
 

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BINGO, Zman! You got <i>that</i> right! Very true<img src=/images/forums/snitz/cool.gif width=15 height=15 border=0> There's always a lot of bull going around in the hi-po world of car performance

Well, happy holidays and:

<img src=/images/forums/snitz/finger.gif width=33 height=15 border=0>Honduhs!


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2001 Elantra GLS
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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
If all that BS <img src=/images/forums/snitz/angry.gif width=15 height=15 border=0> about mods for Hondas were true, we could see 1.6 4 cil Civics beating ass from BMWs 330i <img src=/images/forums/snitz/evil.gif width=15 height=15 border=0> . I don't think it's possible to gain more than 10 - 15 % HP in a 4 cil. without having your internals (pistons, con rods, valves, valve springs, camshafts, crankshaft and manifolds, even flywheel) balanced and worked up or replaced. <img src=/images/forums/snitz/finger.gif width=33 height=15 border=0><hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Uh...batlord managed 16.5% without the BTM or BIM. That was also without ECU tuning, and with a 4-2-1 header rather than a 4-1 header.

More than 15% is easily possible without touching internals, but I would say 20-25% is the limit, not 15%.

Yes, you can see Civic's beating 330's. The 330's are DAMN FRICKING HEAVY!


<hr width=60% noshade size=1 align=left>Leave it to Random to Needlessly complicate things.
 

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Yes maybe you're right. I just put the first Euro-Sporty-Luxury-powerful car that came into my mind. They are heavy, though, not any Civic could beat one of them could it? I'm not going to continue on this post because I think this is a Crossed Post, but I'm starting a new one on the power gain limits.


<hr width=60% noshade size=1 align=left>Zman
H&R Springs/KYB GR2 Shocks/SR Strut Bars (F&R)
Future: CAI / BBTB
 

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To get back to your original question, no a 15 Hp gain out of just about any single part, on an otherwise stock engine is just BS.(Unless you are talking forced induction or Nitrous).

Most BTB's I have seen tested show NO GAIN on a stock motor. They usually only give better throttle response, which doesn't show up on a dyno. The BIM/BTB combo on the Beta motor showed 3.5 HP and 3.3 Torque on an otherwise stock motor on the dyno.

To be honest, when we did that test, I was expecting much larger numbers. The BTB/BIM combo FEELS like more HP/torque due to the increase in throttle response, however, Dyno's don't lie...and there is such a thing as the Placebo effect!<img src=/images/forums/snitz/tongue.gif width=15 height=15 border=0>

In all the tests I have seen Sport Compact Car do, the BTB shows NO gain whatsoever, but since it offers better throttle response, they usually use them. Recently they did see a 1 HP gain out of a BTB on a Dodge Neon.


<hr width=60% noshade size=1 align=left>Leave it to Random to Needlessly complicate things.
 

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Hey Random,

Help me understand... obviously <b>IF</b> the BBTB/BBIM added a significant amount of HP/Torque then we'd see a reduction in 1/4 mile times, right?

Then... given the BBTB/BBIM improves the throttle response what does that really mean? Would it shave some time off the 1/4 mile too?

Seriously... I'm not being smart I just want to know. I'm thinking of buying the BBTB and having my intake enlarged to match but if it's not going to help in a better 1/4 mile time I don't think I'll buy one.

Thanks! <img src=/images/forums/snitz/smile.gif width=15 height=15 border=0>

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Just the BTB alone would just give better throttle response/control, but not much if any more HP. Better throttle response does equal better 1/4 mile times to a good driver, as he can better control the engine/wheels right to the limit of wheel slip. But the average shmoe might not see a decrease.

Better throttle response just means you have more control over the engine, and that foot action = engine action faster/better. It does not mean MORE HP.

The BTB/BIM combo would give better 1/4 mile times. It gains HP and torque.


<hr width=60% noshade size=1 align=left><BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Told you. Random is cool as hell in person, even if he is a dick on the net <img src=/images/forums/snitz/wink.gif width=15 height=15 border=0> (j/k).
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Leave it to Random to Needlessly complicate things.
 

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Thanks Random... I like to think of myself as an <b>above average shmoe!</b> <img src=/images/forums/snitz/smile.gif width=15 height=15 border=0>

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I am ready to buy and IM/TB from someone that they have laying around...I want to get them bored and matched. I have gotten quotes from $350-$600+!! I was wondering if anyone knows of someone that does it for a reasonable cost for the small gain I gonna get from it? I have heard of Onpol, and a Rolling Thunder in Canada...anyone able to help me out here?



<hr width=60% noshade size=1 align=left>"Even in death we live!"
 
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