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this was posted on speedonline.com and i couldn't have said it better. Or had the patience to type it out<img src=/images/forums/snitz/oogle.gif width=15 height=15 border=0>

This post is meant to address some of the specific issues caused by racer undereducation. This is not a complete list, these are my pet irritations.

The “Intake”
It is common nowadays to replace the portion of the intake track between the manifold and the filter, and the filter itself, with an aftermarket “intake”. This irons out several weaknesses that were designed into the tube and filterbox. This in itself is reputable but there are several misconceptions that thrive around this mod. The “intake” tube and cone filter will not yield a large net increase in power. Trust me boys and girls, Honda is not letting 20 hp just slip through their fingers! Common claims that these intakes have tuned volume or length may be true but the action of the third airspring or intake mass is very small. The increased flow of the filter will only help if the engine is revving further than stock or if other significant FLOW changes have been made AND THE FILTER IS WELL TAKEN CARE OF. Make sure the filter sucks cold air otherwise this mod is mostly for looks.

Muffler
For god’s sake now that every kid, and his sister, and his grandmother has one of those giant unrealistic and low toned mufflers can’t we move on to something else? Get the message people the real restriction in the exhaust system is the honeycomb catalytic converter. After you fix that, try to improve the actual flow of the engine so that you have a real reason to call your muffler “restrictive”. I’m currently searching for a muffler that will leave just my turbo whine, anybody know of any such muffler or have any feedback on the “megs” style mufflers? Expensive mufflers are jewelry for the ass end of your car.

“Rims”
Expensive rims go in the same category with intake and muffler. If you buy a set of stock width large rims and low profile tires don’t expect a large handling improvement, also you should probably expect a measurable decrease in off the line traction because the torque “footprint” of the tire is decreased (note the profile of dragster tires is often 100+%). From personal experience, and what I have heard from better SCCA drivers, I would say that low profile tires are only more predictable than their high profile brothers and may offer less cornering traction in many situations. on the street I would not go deeper than 55 series. Instead of buying an expensive set of rims, go wide instead of light and save the money for new tires. (ya know what I mean)


Lightweight Flywheel
Do your tires make hp for you? Then neither does you flywheel and don’t be fooled by anyone who tells you otherwise. A light flywheel is a drive-ability mod. The designers put a large heavy flywheel on your car for several good reasons. without that weight your engine will freewheel (with the clutch depressed) accelerate at hyperspeed. This is very convenient if you like to equalize downshifts or double clutch, it also comes with the ability to over rev the engine in half a second, without warning, YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO REACT QUICKLY ENOUGH TO SAVE THE ENGINE IF YOU MIS-SHIFT. Since the driveline will now rev much more quickly than you can possibly accelerate you will spin your tires more easily and for a longer period. The flywheel also absorbs much of the engine vibration, without it the transmission takes a much harder beating. I likem but they aren’t for everyone.

Cheap Lowering Springs
Either admit that you are lowering your car only for looks and you don’t mind that it’s handling and feel will be much worse or do the reasonable thing: leave the variable rate springs in your mattress, leave some wheel well so you don’t look like a puss crossing curbs and dodging shallow potholes, get shocks to match your new ride height and spring rate, and get a real swaybar to actually improve your handling.
Why put yourself through a bouncy scrapey hell if you don’t get better handling?

“Cam Gears”
Why folks? Do you have a dyne at home? Do you think you can turn an economy cam into a power cam? Sounds like a fun experiment but if you end up leaving it at the stock timing mark, or worse yet, at a setting that lowers your overall power then why waste your money. Save it and spend it on a new camshaft or better yet a leather shiftknob, at least that’s a mod that you will be able to feel and use.

“port and polish”
This is my current pet peeve. If you don’t know what it is PLEASE DO NOT CLAIM YOU HAVE HAD IT DONE. Most modern engines do not benefit from extensive porting unless larger valves or a taller cam are going to be installed. Surface roughness prevents fuel condensation and is so minimal that I would only do it on a full race engine where I was trying to yield every possible fraction of a hp at peak revs. if you have had this done for real and your engine is otherwise stock consider yourself robbed by the cylinderhead shop that did it.



Wires, Coils
Did we forget something? HELL YEAH the part that actually makes the spark. Without significantly upgrading the functional part of the system (igniter, ignition box) that excess capacity you add with expensive wires and coils only goes to waste. Buy an aftermarket ignition first, then a coil, then consider new wires. Some of the best wire sets for price and dependability are the OEM ones. The good o.e.m. brands (BOSCH!) are exactly the right length, have tight fitting connections, and are of ample capacity.
If the stock ignition is working well and you do not plan on increasing the compression or upping the rev limit, than a complete ignition upgrade may provide the most expensive 4-5 hp that you can buy.

Nitrous.
Great stuff, REALLY. Only problem is that it is expensive and can really test the limits of your cars systems. If you get it, plan on expending the first tank just tuning the system. nitrous can provide tremendous power, while at the same time taking your engine into the dangerous land called LEAN. This might be caused by lower than required fuel flow (not necessarily pressure) a weakness somewhere in the system (like a faulty injector asked to do more than it can) or mis-jetting of a wet nitrous system. A faulty fuel solenoid will turn your engine into a live munition in seconds flat. Don’t install it on your car and never use it, that’s like walking around with a loaded gun and thinking you know how to use it without practice or training.

Expensive plugs.
Plugs are a tuning tool. Plugs do not make power. Normal tuning of stock and modified engines often requires replacing basically new sets of plugs because they do not have the right properties or have become irreparably glazed or fouled. I like to look at my plugs, it lets me check on each individual cylinder and on the combustion in general. There have been several improvements in plug design in the last ten years but the old standbys of temperature range and plug reach still hold sway. If you have a set of twelve dollar plugs I have to assume that you either really hate to change your plugs and want maximum life (60K+miles) or you think that having rare earth metals in your combustion chamber is going to help your engine. One frill that I can advise traditional arm Platinum plugs. They last longer, stay cleaner, and resist erosion from high intensity sparking. I have tried platinum plugs with frills and didn’t discern any difference other than inability to check their gaps and the fact that they were impossible to read.



<hr noshade width=60% size=1 align=left>Viva la Evolution.
 

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Well said.


<hr width=60% noshade size=1 align=left>"Hey, if my prize is your foot up my arse... its still a prize.... " - <b>WhoopOi</b>

<a href="http://shop.hyundaiperformance.com">Shop.HyundaiPerformance.Com</a>, your one-stop shop for Hyundai performance parts (coming soon)
 

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Too bad some of that sh!t is wrong.
Intake: If this is true then why do some cars dyno 8+HP with JUST an intake?

Exhaust: If your biggest limit in the exhaust is the cat then why do you only gain 1-2hp when you replace it compared to the 5+hp with JUST the exhaust?

wheels: Then why doesn't Ferrari only put 15's on thier cars?

Flywheel: I agree with MOST of this, but not all.

Springs: The lower center of gravity is what helps the handling. I agree that you need to get shocks & sway bars also but, how many cars in the world that are the best hanldling cars sit high?

Cam gears: I DYNOED 6 extra hp on my STOCK cams on my Prelude. They are mainly useful though when you get into the bigger cams.

P & P: I agree you should do ALL the other mods first but I believe you can gain 10+hp on our motors. I've seen Honda motors gain 20+hp with a good P & P.

PLug wires: True. Wires are not needed if you don't upgrade the coils or do not have a big increase in hp. Mainly they are a cosmetic mod on your street car.

nitrous: I agree.

PLugs: I agree. No need to buy those expensive sh!t. Her car used regular NGK plugs.



<hr width=60% noshade size=1 align=left>2001 Elantra GLS
2001 Accent GS RIP
96 Supercharged Accent GT sold Jeff T
 

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Let me state some facts about reducing the rotating mass on a 4cyl spark ignited engine.

1. The specific inertial mass of a flywheel depends on the weight of the vehicle and the power that the vehicle produces. The weight and inertial mass can vary, it is dependent on where the mass is placed. You can have a flywheel that weighs 40lbs, but the flywheel that weighs 30 lbs can have a greater amount of inertial mass if the weight is place around the circumference of the flywheel.

A flywheel doesn't absord torsional vibration, like stated in that myth article. A heavy flywheel can help reduce torsional vibration amplitudes. A heavy flywheel can also add torsional stress. Once the mass in is in motion, it requires little to keep it in motion, but starting it in motion is where most stress is placed on the crank.

2. Lightening a flywheel will increase the amount torsional vibration transferred into the transmission at idle and the engine will idle rougher. The oem manufactures use a heavier flywheel for drivability purposes. The average consumer of vehicles would not want to deal with affects of a light flywheel.

3. A lighted flywheel will affect drivability, you will have have less inertial mass to start out with.

4. A aluminum flywheel will not gain you more topend, the only gain you will have better acceleration.

5. Adding a aluminum flywheel will decrease the angular displacement of the crank, which will drive the freq's up. The heavier the mass on the crank the lower the crank freq's.

6. By adding a aluminum flywheel it will brake the crank, FALSE. Because of the relativley short stiff crank that a four cylinder has torsionals do not affect them in the same as a V or inline 6 engine. The so called damper that hyundai uses, is not a true torsional damper. Out of the fact that the inertia ring is the pulley, inorder for a inertia ring to function it must be free. A elastomer damper is tuned by changing the mass of the inertia ring. Because of the varying load placed upon the inertia ring(pulley) on a Hyundai engine it does a relativley poor job of dampening.

7. Most four cylinders do not require a damper, only under extreme circumstances do they require one, which would be extreme cylinder pressure, turbo and nitrous.

8. A aluminum flywheel will increase clutch life by disapating heat better.

Basically a lighted flywheel will not harm an engine. A person will give up some drivability, inorder to gain acceleration. A lighted flywheel is perferred for any kind road racing.


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Interesting debate.

There are truths in all of the statements made. Basically you need to decide what purpose you are building your car for. You can not have a car that is a show winner/Drag car/auto-x car/rally car/ etc etc. It just does not work that way.

Mods that are good for running solo events (auto-x) are not always good for running drag cars. Basically what it boils down to is figuring out exactly why you are building your car.

Some of the mods you do are just for show purposes and give no real gains and somepeople do mods that don't produce any real power without doing something else also but not everyone can afford to do everything at one time.


<hr width=60% noshade size=1 align=left><b>I absolutely positively abhor and verbally bitchslap anyone who starts quoting me their entire car mods as some sort of "Stage".~RED~</b><img src=/images/forums/snitz/wink.gif width=15 height=15 border=0>

<b>WHAT THE F(*)&^#@(*^ IS UP WITH EVERYONE QUOTING OTHERS IN THEIR SIGNATURE??~Nikki~</b>
 

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while alot of this stuff may not be <i>exactly</i> correct... if we could get even a few riceboys out there to at least soak up SOME of it... cus alot don't kno ANY of it... then the guy who posted this should get the nobel prize... this is all somewhere truthful, give or take. mostly everything you do to your car is not just a simple "bolt-on" eventhing that is done should be done because you have the knowledge of what ur doing, what RESULT you want, and what your budget is. tuning a car is a puzzle basically.. but its like one of those jenga puzzles... well not exactly, athough u pull and move the wrong piece for too much and crash.. lol but anyway, u can change all sorts of things, and no ONE thing is gonna do alot, everything works in conjuction with other things, and two parts used together may produce a completely differnt result than say the first of those two parts mated with a differnt second part. i think you guys kno what i mean, you use differnt manufacturers for differnt replacement parts for the same stock part if ur building a rally car or a drag car.. and u target differnt areas to beef up and to mod the most heavily.

ok..after typeing all this, heres the analogy: swapping stock for aftermarket, no matter what, is like dropping a stone in a still pond..it makes ripples. if ur serious, ur gonna pic what size and shape rock ur gonna drop so u kno what ripples ur gonna get, and then ur gonna kno how you want to react to the type of ripples ur causeing with more rocks uve selected...meaning more parts in the area ur goin for.

while this, and all ive said, is all great.. the fact is that the reason people get plug wires and fly wheels and stuff is cus A) money limits the mods we can do! and B) most people are going to buy what the market has for them. most people do it just for a hobby (limited by money!) in their spare time. also its a learning experience. but none of us are pro car tuners, and most uf us don't KNOW enough to be able to put our mods to their full potential and in the conditions with other mods to work together at MAXIMUM output for what your striving for. i mean, just look at all the differences of opinon over all of this... we all kno what we kno..but who knows thats true? car tuning is testing! and most people like testing things themselves.. so its hard to say whose right, and whats best... whats best is what suits u, and what makes u happy. just don't get too mouthy, stand tall, and do what ur doin.. thats basically the only rule <img src=/images/forums/snitz/thumbup.gif width=25 height=18 border=0> at least thats how i see it <img src=/images/forums/snitz/wink.gif width=15 height=15 border=0>


<hr width=60% noshade size=1 align=left>'98 Accent GSi
Naxos muffler / custom 2 1/4" catback
Clear side markers
Custom front grills
Custom CAI
Racing pedals
<img src="http://www.flightsimmers.net/airbase/talonsnest/carshiz/car3.gif" border=0>
 

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Some of what you said is correct BlackDevil, people should examine the validity of the claim that a aftermarket component has, saying it will deliver 8hp with a filter. Then do some research to study up on the priciple of how the component works or is suppose to function. Just some good old fashioned reasoning is all that is needed sometimes though, especially for some of the more outlandish components like the Tornado.


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yup, did anyone see the posts about the fact that it can't work, cus duh, the tb butterfly would kill the "vortex" of spinning air..and hows it gonna spin all the way down the manifold to the injectors, where the atomization of fuel actaully takes place...maybe in carburated cars...

i wish hyundaituner was up at the moment..there was a post i made.. from a tornado-type product site..a guy with a 99 neon saying he has like 34-36 whp, and runs a 16.8, then puts in the tornado-type thing, and has 44-46 whp and runs 15.8 HAHAHA..theres so much wrong with that its insane. the thing giving u 10 hp.. 10 hp dropping u a SEC!! a 34 whp car running a 15.8! a stock 99 neon have ONLY 34 whp! i mean..this is why the f*ckin industry is the way it is... and read this post! http://hyundaiperformance.com/forums/snitz/topic.asp?a=&t=5868 haha, i love it <img src=/images/forums/snitz/laugh.gif width=15 height=31 border=0>


<hr width=60% noshade size=1 align=left>'98 Accent GSi
Naxos muffler / custom 2 1/4" catback
Clear side markers
Custom front grills
Custom CAI
Racing pedals
<img src="http://www.flightsimmers.net/airbase/talonsnest/carshiz/car3.gif" border=0>
 

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This is a good read for the beginner but I agree that there are some things I would like to clarify.

Intake... There are gains to be had... 2-10 hp. Agreed that it needs to be a high flowing, well maintained and have access to COLD outside air.

Muffler... agreed again with the converter but a good cat back exhaust system will gain you power. Around 5 hp in a Beta.

Rims, Go wide and tall. If your suspension and engine can use it.. otherwise it is definately decrative. I find that anything larger than 17" is painful for city driving.

Lightweight Flywheel - The loss of rotational inertia makes a significant difference in acceleration. Most notablly in first and second. Although standing start is a little more difficult but you get use to it.

Cam gears... these should never be installed outside of a dyno room and 1 hr of tuning. There is some power to be had... but there is lots of power to be lost with improper settings. In tibbys we found that around 2 degree retard in the exhaust cam seems to add the most power.

Cheap Lowering Springs - like anything else cheap... not worth it but a good set of springs is a definate improvement.

Port and polish... agreed... even the crappy Beta head doesn't really start making power with a port and polish until everything else bolt on has been done.

Wire, coils, and plugs will only add power significantly in seriously modified cars. Or if the stock parts needed replacement to begin with. You'd be suprised how much power you gain by just putting in a new set of stock ignition components.

Nitrous... for the novice I only recommend a simple dry system.

Cheuk





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ALL i am going to say is that you people need to chill.......i mean how whiny can you get? Let the people talk their **** and do whatever. is it affecting you? is it making your car perform any less? Quit whining and let people learn for them selves...if they want to spend $1000 on some **** that doesnt work let them and let them talk about it. You guys are acting like babies. "pet peeves"? LOL get over it man. People talk ****, always have, always will. And if i want to go out and spend money modding my car its up to me whether i want it fo rlooks or not..but i have MY reasons, and if i want your advice ill ask for it. No matter what i do though i will have a blast doing it. So in my opinion you need to suck it up quit whining and let people learn for themselves. You go on with your knowledge and use it for yourself.



<hr width=60% noshade size=1 align=left>I bleed nitrous and sweat gasoline......is that bad?
 

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<img src=/images/forums/snitz/finger.gif width=33 height=15 border=0>Now THIS is the reason i left my Elantra bone stock other than the sad little fact that I'm poor and cant afford to replace my head gasket...eeeeeeeehehehehe


<hr width=60% noshade size=1 align=left>Power without the skill to control it is a dangerous thing...
 

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soak up some of it? ****
i would be happy if they soaked up:

<b>THE EXHAUSTS EVERYONE HAS THEY'RE LOUD AND ANNOYING, LOOK INTO SOMETHHING ELSE</b><img src=/images/forums/snitz/guns.gif width=33 height=16 border=0>

that's all i'm asking. it hurts your ears following them or being near them, and to the ****er in utah that pulled up to my window in a little escort!! and had no cat, and no muffler and floored it in my open window, you can go to hell

<img src=/images/forums/snitz/tongue.gif width=15 height=15 border=0> ta ta (sorry, i'm smoking, almost on fire hehe)


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about the flywheel, i contacted clutchmasters and they replied that they were close to having one for retail!?!<img src=/images/forums/snitz/uhh.gif width=15 height=15 border=0> If getting a lighter aftermarket flywheel means I will increase acceleration, ...I will be getting one<img src=/images/forums/snitz/eek.gif width=15 height=15 border=0><img src=/images/forums/snitz/smile.gif width=15 height=15 border=0><img src=/images/forums/snitz/thumbup.gif width=25 height=18 border=0>


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They may be doing a flywheel but for what year of beta engine, they changed the cranks in july of 1999


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I listed my vehicle as 2000 Tib, I figured he should know the difference.<img src=/images/forums/snitz/smile.gif width=15 height=15 border=0>


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its interesting reading...well there are some true to it provided if its a static modification. However, we do know aftermarket modification of a certain hardware shifts the overall balance of the said vehicle in terms of engine or handling performance. one form of modification requires another to gain optimal point. If the process is not complete, then optimal point (or worse poorer result) will not be reached. While we take a step by step approach, at the end its all about rebalancing at a higher level depending on what is the objective or desired result.

At the end, I cannot agree with what is said.....it only meant as an insult.

[Edited by stkhoo on May 9, 2003 4:40 AM]
 
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