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so it's not in your car ??

hmmm
Why would it be required to be in the car? You can run an engine out of the car when you have the proper equipment. I have access to that kind of tool.

No. I am bench testing the motor. I want to get the bugs out before I drop it in the car. I anticipated there would be bugs before I began the build.

It is easier to figure out things that might have problems when you have tools for testing it. I have access to a engine dyno and I have extra parts within easy reach.

I may decide to test different exhaust manifolds before I finalize the build. I currently have the stock 2005 XD2 manifold I'm using, but I likely will either change it or make my own depending on what I want to do, and whether I feel is right for the application and tuning. Sometimes you get better results from a stock like setup rather than a performance oriented setup.

I'm nowhere near finished with this. I'm doing a lot of R&D on this before I put this on the road.
 

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I'm more interested in the evo crank. Will the crank fit in unmodified into beta 1 and beta 2 motors? If so what year evo does this apply?
 

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I'm more interested in the evo crank. Will the crank fit in unmodified into beta 1 and beta 2 motors? If so what year evo does this apply?
I used a 2003 Evo crank. Should redo the rod bearings. Might have to reface them.

I had the crank and rods balanced as much as I could. Engine runs smoother with less vibration. I chose the Evo crank because they are better than the Hyundai beta crank as far as build and durability.

The beta 1 and 2 are very similar to the 03 Evo 2 liter engine. A lot of parts are interchangeable. The exhaust manifolds bolt up with no problem. An Evo turbo manifold bolts right up.
 

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so what your saying is that a 2003 evo turbo manifold will bolt up to a beta 1 and beta 2 and line up without modifications? interesting, i might have to look into that, thats a whole can of worms for me :)
 

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so what your saying is that a 2003 evo turbo manifold will bolt up to a beta 1 and beta 2 and line up without modifications? interesting, i might have to look into that, thats a whole can of worms for me :)
Yep.

The same thing will happen with the late model Neon SRT and late Evo's which have the 2.4 turbo. The 2006+ 2.4 Theta is basically the same engine. Pumbaa has a 2007 2.4 engined Sonata and he wants to swap out the exhaust manifold with the SRT turbo manifold.

The Dodge Caliber uses the beta 2 engine as well as the 2.4 Theta engine in the Caliber SRT. We do have more interchangeable parts than you think. The Theta engine is in several Dodge/Chrysler vehicles. I also think Dodge is also using the Lambda 3.3 and 3.8 v6 engines.
 

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So basically since the '03 Evo is the same through Evo's VIII-IX we can use any stock or aftermarket crank or turbo exhaust manifold for them? And did you say the intake manifold would also fit or were you refering to the exhaust manifold.

This does open a lot of options for all of beta motors if it can be done as you said with out modifications.
 

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So basically since the '03 Evo is the same through Evo's VIII-IX we can use any stock or aftermarket crank or turbo exhaust manifold for them? And did you say the intake manifold would also fit or were you refering to the exhaust manifold.

This does open a lot of options for all of beta motors if it can be done as you said with out modifications.
The 2003 Evo has the 2 liter motor. The Eclipse 2 liter motor also has the same motor. Earlier models likely will not work as easy because the bolt pattern is slightly different. I do know the 2003 exhaust manifold does bolt up to the beta 2.

The crank is the same, but the beta has a different materialed crank. I don't know about the intake manifold (haven't tried it) but sensor issues might pose a problem with that.

Everything should bolt up fairly easy.
 

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I should of been a bit more specific. I removed the o2 sensors to stop fighting the ecu from "re-tuning" my tune, now it holds it. I use the rising rate fuel pressure regulator so the car can idle with the large injectors. Without it I would of never got anywhere tuning this car b/c it would of just flooded constantly.
 

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I should of been a bit more specific. I removed the o2 sensors to stop fighting the ecu from "re-tuning" my tune, now it holds it. I use the rising rate fuel pressure regulator so the car can idle with the large injectors. Without it I would of never got anywhere tuning this car b/c it would of just flooded constantly.
For one thing, you have injectors that are too large and likely a fuel pump that can't pump enough LPH to push enough fuel through a smaller injector that can work with the ECU. What you have is a setup where the ECU is at default all the time.

On my setup, which is for a 2007 HD Elantra, I must use the factory ECU because the electrical system is monitoring the electrical devises in the car, from lights to the windows and power steering (which is electrically controlled/operated). The ECU has a CAN line capability, which means there are computers on the other parts of the car that the ECU is controlling/monitoring. I cannot use a stand alone unit because I would have to literally rewire the entire car to have the systems in the car to function. My car has 2 separate systems that operate on a 5 volt circuit as well as a 12 volt circuit. All of the switches are operated with the 5 volt circuit and the devises they operate are on the 12 volt circuit. The BCM on the car, which monitors the whole interior/exterior lighting, power lock/window components as well as HVAC system allows the ECU to shut components off if there is a short or other malfunction. The ECU will also turn off all lighting (in case the lights are turned on) and all accessories within 20 minutes if the key is off and the alarm is armed.

What I have on the turbo engine is a Walbro fuel pump, Sonata 2.4 injectors and a custom built motor. With the new fuel pump, it is capable of pushing more fuel through the injectors than the stock pump, which allow the ECU to adjust the duty cycle easier and have the car run without issues on the dyno. I still need to add more fuel though, which I think a slightly larger injector will work.
 

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Im running a walbro fuel pump as well. Turning the fuel pressure down to 20-30psi at idle helps the car to not run so rich (because it will always be idle that causes the problem when tuning with the stock ecu). You can only pull so much voltage with the safc, you can pull even more with an emanage and it still wasnt enough without a rrfpr. Until i cranked up the boost on the dyno i was running maybe 15psi of fuel pressure at idle lol The stuck ecu can compensate for slightly larger injectors, like when i ran the beta 1 injectors in place of my stock injectors. Supposedly thats going from 190cc to 240. Some switch to the 290cc injectors and dont have too much problem with tuning as well. The real problem comes into play when you plan on making larger hp #'s and need much larger injectors. According to this chart :
Browser Warning
A single 200cc injector is capable of 40hp meaning 4 injectors = 160hp. Its even less when you take into account that you should only run injectors at a max of 80% of their duty cycle (the ecu default will not run more than i think its 90% duty cycle and cranking up the fuell pressure beyond what its rated for will cause problems i know from experience).
 

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My stock beta 2 injectors are rated for 190cc. These are the same injector as the SULEV 2006 Elantra. The Sonata injector is rated for 290cc. Right now, the engine runs slightly rich at idle and leans out at high rpm. I have not ran the engine long enough for the ECU to compensate and trim the fuel since I reset it yesterday when I put in the pump.
 

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You may also run into the larger fuel pump over running the stock fuel pressure regulator. The beta 2 injectors are smaller than the beta one injectors i remember reading that. Tuning off boost will always be hardest part trying to get all that extra fuel out, with the small injector change you should be alright.
 

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I just install the aem fic. This thing it's the only solution to our ecus. It adds/removes fuel directly to the injectors without any problems at all! and retards timing! Go for it you'll love it. On thursday you'll enjoy my gt28r turbo beta1 /w fic....
 

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You may also run into the larger fuel pump over running the stock fuel pressure regulator. The beta 2 injectors are smaller than the beta one injectors i remember reading that. Tuning off boost will always be hardest part trying to get all that extra fuel out, with the small injector change you should be alright.
I am constantly monitoring the air/fuel ratio when I decide to change things. With the Walbro 190, my engine (on the engine dyno) runs fine and power is where it should be. With the stock pump, it was running slightly lean with the Sonata injectors, but with the stock HD injectors on the stock pump, it threw lean codes very quickly. I am going to let the engine run for a couple days to let the ECU do its thing to see where the A/F ratio ends up at. Its calculations are based on the numbers from the o2 sensors and will try to compensate a little if the ratio is off. If it can't, it will throw a code. The HD ecu is not programmed to adapt as far as the older cars, and when you decide to add air, you also must add the right amount of fuel.

I just install the aem fic. This thing it's the only solution to our ecus. It adds/removes fuel directly to the injectors without any problems at all! and retards timing! Go for it you'll love it. On thursday you'll enjoy my gt28r turbo beta1 /w fic....
The issue is, with the modern car, the ecu controls more than the engine. I have the entire electrical system to contend with, which you young guys don't realize. You assume the computer only controls the engine. It no longer does that now. The ECU controls the lighting, power windows, electric steering, ABS, SRS system, tells the radio to adjust the volume based on vehicle speed, and monitors the HVAC system. Instead of having a 12 volt circuit running from a power source to a switch, then to a devise, all your lighting, power windows, heating/cooling control, rear defrost etc. are run by a body control module, which is a mini computer controlled by the ecu. Rather than the switch sending power directly to a devise, a low voltage signal (in this case, a 5 volt circuit) is run from another module in the car (lets say a window switch) via a 2 wire circuit. Another signal is sent through the same 2 wires telling the module to raise/lower the door window. The wiring is simpler and less wiring is used, but you have to know about computer networking in order to figure it out.

I have no choice but to use the stock ecu. I must first do a lot of calculations to make sure I'm adding the right amount of fuel so the ECU will not get pissy.
 

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Actually cclngthr you can run a piggy back or stand alone ECu in your car. You just tap into the electrical components you need and leave in the OEM to control all the other stuff. Just allow the after market to have complete control of the output to the engine.

Example allow both OEM and after market to read crank signal but only allow after market to control injectors and ignition. This allows your stock tachometer to still work and as far as the OEM knows it is outputting to control the motor.
 

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Actually cclngthr you can run a piggy back or stand alone ECu in your car. You just tap into the electrical components you need and leave in the OEM to control all the other stuff. Just allow the after market to have complete control of the output to the engine.

Example allow both OEM and after market to read crank signal but only allow after market to control injectors and ignition. This allows your stock tachometer to still work and as far as the OEM knows it is outputting to control the motor.
Not so with a stand alone. The stock ECU controls the power steering (which is electric), ABS, airbag system, body control module (which the entire interior/exterior lighting and power windows, locks, alarm, and HVAC are connected to) and transmission. If you remove the ecu, you disable everything in the car that the ECU is controlling. Essentially, the entire electrical system is monitored by the ECU. On your car, a stand alone is possible because the electrical system is independent of the ECU. On my 2007 Elantra, the electrical system runs through the ECU through a CAN (controller area network) networking system which all other modules are networked into the ECU. I can get codes for a short in the tail light circuit as well as a problem with the power steering.

The HD ECU is a pissy computer which has a habit of shutting things off if it sees a major problem. It will also get pissy if you mod the car incorrectly without thinking the ECU is running the show. Modding has to take a different approach. I also have a more complex setup where the sensors are different and there are more of them with engine management.

For example, when I forget to turn off an interior light, or inadvertently leave the headlight switch on and the key was off when I turned the lights on (they will go off if the key was removed after the lights were on) the ECU will turn off the lights in 20 minutes. I can have the door open and the interior dome light will automatically turn off in 20 minutes. The ECU will also turn off the trunk release switch and power lock switch after arming the alarm. The ECU also monitors the battery voltage and if it goes below 11 volts, it will automatically shut everything off.
 

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OK...I have read through this entire thread. And I have to say that you are just not listening to what people are telling you.
For the record...I have turbocharged N/A engines from stock. I had the most powerful internally stock QG18DE powered vehicle in the world until I sold it 6 months ago....so I know what is involved in adding FI to an N/A engine.
This goes for any TURBOCHARGER installation...you MUST alter the fuel curve by changing the delivery at different RPM. Just adding bigger injectors and a fuel pump and hoping on a wing and a prayer is bollocks....
Sorry but it is! A turbocharger as we all know does not deliver extra airflow in a linear manner..unlike a supercharger. What you have done would work well for a supercharger install.
Scenario...
Just by adding an uprated fuel pump over a stock pump...and NOT changing the injectors...will.. by rights not alter the fuel delivery via those injectors.
Think of the fuel pump as an Amplifier. Say the stock pump is equivalent to 50watts...and a Walbro 255lph as say 200watts. Think of the injectors as the speakers...the more CC/Min the injector have can be akin to the dB/watt of a speaker. If you do not know...the higher the dB/watt...the more efficient the speaker is and it will be "louder" than another of a lower dB...at 1 watt. So...in an injectors case...the power it receives is the pressure.
The demand, or volume...is set by the injector pulses and the FPR. Alter one of those two factors and the volume changes. Now...at low volumes...both will work just the same. But...increase the volume and the "50watt" version will start to run out of power...or flow in this case.

Just because you have a bigger amplifier at a given volume doesn't make it louder!
I use that analogy because its an easy way to understand it.
Now..you may have noticed small changes via AFR's and whatnot...thats because the stock pump running through those larger injectors was running out of "power"...it just couldn't keep up.

Do a test on the bench of just the fuel system...
a. Stock pump and Injectors
b. Larger pump and stock injectors
c. Standard pump and larger injectors
d. Larger pump and larger injectors.

Yes! We get that the HD ecu does all this other blurb...no one is disputing that. The AEM F/IC does not alter any of the ECU *INPUT signals at all. Unlike the Emanage and Safc and all the other piggybacks, the AEM alters the injector pulses coming out of the ECU. It is not a standalone ECU...and does NOT claim to be either. It works in conjunction with the stock ECU to manage the fuel delivery to the engine based on what the engine is requiring due to extra air being forced into it. It does this by allowing the tuner to alter the injector pulses to the injectors based on what is happening in the combustion chamber! Of course...monitoring the exhaust gasses via a WBO sensor is best for this.

The stock ECU has absolutely NO IDEA that the engine has a turbocharger hanging of it...how would it? The way around the pressure level difference on a MAP sensed engine is to "clamp" the output voltage at its N/A max level. That is a voltage that needs to be tested and logged BEFORE the turbo is added. Then...once the FI system goes on..that feature is then performed.
Now...I put an asterix (*) beside the Input signals because I have to point out that it does alter one input....the first EGO sensor. If you alter the fuel curve that the ECU has output...and the EGO sensor is not relaying back to the ECU what the ECU "thinks" it should be getting back...it will try and compensate. And..as you rightly point out...it can't do that very well...and thus throws a CEL.

The AEM F/IC has a cool function that intercepts that EGO sensor signal...and alters it back to what the ECU would consider acceptable...and thus no CEL code is logged.

An engines tune is dependent on what is happening inside the engine...not what the ECU does to it. If you add any device that can tune the engine and keep the stock ECU characteristics...and keep it happy...I would definitely being using it...and I will be on my turbo upgrade that is currently in place for my '07 Elantra.

Any ECU can be manipulated to tune an engine...lets not forget that. AEM developed this device for engines just like our...and paid lots of time and money into R&D to make sure it works.

Sorry for the rant...but I JUST had to get this off my chest.



Not so with a stand alone. The stock ECU controls the power steering (which is electric), ABS, airbag system, body control module (which the entire interior/exterior lighting and power windows, locks, alarm, and HVAC are connected to) and transmission. If you remove the ecu, you disable everything in the car that the ECU is controlling. Essentially, the entire electrical system is monitored by the ECU. On your car, a stand alone is possible because the electrical system is independent of the ECU. On my 2007 Elantra, the electrical system runs through the ECU through a CAN (controller area network) networking system which all other modules are networked into the ECU. I can get codes for a short in the tail light circuit as well as a problem with the power steering.

The HD ECU is a pissy computer which has a habit of shutting things off if it sees a major problem. It will also get pissy if you mod the car incorrectly without thinking the ECU is running the show. Modding has to take a different approach. I also have a more complex setup where the sensors are different and there are more of them with engine management.

For example, when I forget to turn off an interior light, or inadvertently leave the headlight switch on and the key was off when I turned the lights on (they will go off if the key was removed after the lights were on) the ECU will turn off the lights in 20 minutes. I can have the door open and the interior dome light will automatically turn off in 20 minutes. The ECU will also turn off the trunk release switch and power lock switch after arming the alarm. The ECU also monitors the battery voltage and if it goes below 11 volts, it will automatically shut everything off.
 
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