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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
For those of you who have upgraded their fuel pumps with a Walbro kit, I was wondering which 2nd Generation Eclipse pump would fit my 95 Elantra GLS? I'm asking coz the FWD & AWD assemblies are kinda different and I want to be more specific when I order one soon. I'm going for the Zex 75 shot!


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http://www.pcrepairworld.com/nitrousworld/

http://webhome.idirect.com/~trini/car/elantra.html

Two sites for info about Nitrous and fuel pumps.




<hr width=60% noshade size=1 align=left>Later,
Aaron Britt
Events Coordinator, Las Vegas F-body Assoc.
'97 Trans-Am WS6
'96 Elantra GLS
"The shortest distance between two points is a straight line........but, it's not as much fun."
<img src="http://www.speedcraving.com/i8acobra/flag.gif">
 

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http://www.autoperformanceengineering.com/

Absolute top-notch parts, Hyundai cars are explicitly listed... Highest flowing in-tank pump available is only $115 shipped.

This is where I just bought mine... Walboro 255lph hi-pressure model. Can run my needed 165lph at 68psi for my project.

-Red-
 

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i just fixed a problem i was having with my fuel system, i think its reasonable to post it here to help anybody else who might make a big mistake by running the 255lph in-tank pump..

ok, i have the stock pump in the tank. and i use the MSD inline pump ..

i used to have it on all the time, i drove about 2600 miles with it.. the result, FOULED spark plugs, and sometimes the car would stall when i slowed down at a red light and such... this was because of the excess fuel pressure that the stock regulator could not send back to the tank... it just POURED out of the injectors and fouled the plugs nasty..

how did i fix this problem ?

1. i hooked up the fuel pump relay wire to the nitrous arming switch, that way, the fuel pump only turns on when i arm the nitrous system....

the rest of the time, the stock fuel pump pushes the fuel through the inline pump and the car runs perfectly fine, no stalling, no fouled plugs.. runs absolutely beatifull like stock...

now, if i would have make the mistake of buying the 255lph in-tank pump... there is NO WAY for me to avoid the fouling problem, and i would have a shitty running car that will cost more to maintain and it'll be turning off on me at every damn light..

my inline pump is only a 180lph or less... imagine how bad the 255lph pump will screw up the plugs !!!!

the only solution to the in-tank problem is to get an adjustable fuel pressure regulator and then tune it from there... but that is a total pain in the ARSE, since i'd rather not mess with that stuff.. my arming switch seems to be a good solution for the time being :) ...


also, for those of you who may think that the stock pump could die from all the stress of pushing the fuel throug the MSD inline pump, i am not worried one bit, because if the fuel flow was restricted enough to make the car run bad, then i could tell the pump was gona die/or could be dying... so far, i have not seen any CEL neither have i noticed any erratic problems with the engine while driving/crising around town like i normally do.


so, your all welcome :)


<hr width=60% noshade size=1 align=left>1999 Hyundai Elantra Auto. 80HP Wet Nitrous System. http://www.pcrepairworld.com/nitrousworld
AIM SN: FordFasteR
 

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Not quite...

If you are making enough power to warrant such a fuel pump, then you are making enough power to purchase a seperate fuel pressure regulator system. BEGI makes them for around $150.

If you don't need that much fuel, you don't need this pump. The same goes for your in-line pump... You've installed a pump that flows about 4x more than the stocker at the stock pressure levels -- what did you EXPECT to happen?

The project that I am building requires 165lph at 68psi, which this Walboro is capable of.

Please don't preach to those who know what they're doing.

-Red-
 

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there is a site with elantra stuff on it, it has the write up of how to install the pump , it says on there that the stock regulator will get the excess fuel out of the system... well, its obviously not true..

preach it baby preach it !!! <img src=/images/forums/snitz/mad.gif width=16 height=16 border=0>


<hr width=60% noshade size=1 align=left>1999 Hyundai Elantra Auto. 80HP Wet Nitrous System. http://www.pcrepairworld.com/nitrousworld
AIM SN: FordFasteR
 

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Red, can you give me the full run down on fuel pump selection? I've got the Venom VCN-2000 which controls fuel flow by increasing the pulse width on the injectors. Do you think I'll need a pump? I was thinking I shouldn't because I'm not trying to force more fuel through the stock pulse width, which would require increased line pressure. I was also thinking that if I did use a new pump, the VCN-2000 would see the rich A/F through the O2 sensor (I'm going to use a dedicated sensor just for the VCN) and just shorten the injector pulse width, thereby defeating the whole purpose of having a high flow pump. What's your take on this? Anyone else?


<hr width=60% noshade size=1 align=left>Later,
Aaron Britt
Events Coordinator, Las Vegas F-body Assoc.
'97 Trans-Am WS6
'96 Elantra GLS
"The shortest distance between two points is a straight line........but, it's not as much fun."
<img src="http://www.speedcraving.com/i8acobra/flag.gif">
 

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Ford, let's use common sense for just a moment: Stock pressure regulator works by venting fuel to the return line.

The vent is certainly large enough to make sure it can regulate pressure based on the stock pump... The stock pump flows something lke 60lph, so the little stock regulator needs a certain size plunger to be able to modify that flow.

But you throw a pump that can do 200+lph and expect the stock regulator plunger vent to be able to bleed off ALL that extra? Duh, what did you think was gonna happen?

Common sense.

Cobra, regarding electronics for adjusting fuel flow... It is almost UNIVERSALLY better to always use such a device to <b>remove</b> fuel rather than add it. One of these extra-large fuel pumps would indeed significantly raise your static fuel pressure, which will serve to make the car run very rich.

The best way to set this up depends on your power requirements...

If you're just bolting on the basic N/A upgrades, you will not need this pump. In fact, with Intake/ThrottleBody/Intake manifold/Ported head/Cam/Header/full exhaust, my car needed LESS fuel than it was trying to use. Taking about 17% of the fuel out between 5K and redline made an 8WHP difference.... (back in the day when I was still going the N/A route)

If you wanna go crazy with the mods, the electronics will probably need to be removed :( but the pump will be more than adequate.

Typically, you don't use piggyback electronics to increase airflow on STOCK injectors, because after a certain point, more pulsewidth doesn't give you anything.

-Red-
 

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Red, the VCN-2000 is a computerized nitrous system. Instead of adding more fuel with a fuel jet, it opens your stock fuel injectors. I'm guessing you don't have any experience with computerized nitrous. Thanks anyways. Anyone else?


<hr width=60% noshade size=1 align=left>Later,
Aaron Britt
Events Coordinator, Las Vegas F-body Assoc.
'97 Trans-Am WS6
'96 Elantra GLS
"The shortest distance between two points is a straight line........but, it's not as much fun."
<img src="http://www.speedcraving.com/i8acobra/flag.gif">
 

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It doesn't matter, unless your controller DIRECTLY (and I mean right up to the wiring harness on the injector itself directly) attaches to the fuel injectors, then you have a problem.

All of the piggyback systems that "modify" the stock fuel delivery usually do so by changing the readings of the MAF sensor input on the stock ECU.

Pulsewidth duration is dependant on RPM... You can get more pulsewidth at idle because the intake cam is open "longer" because it's turning slower. Duty cycle is a measurement of the percentage of time your injector stays open versus how long it COULD stay open while the intake valve is open...

If you're running more than about 90% duty cycle, then you're starting to cause more problems than solutions. If you use an electronic piggyback system to modify your MAF signal to supply the fuel for NOS, eventually the stock ECU will start getting pissed off.

If the duty cycle hits more than I think 85% on the stock computer (doesn't MATTER what piggyback you use) and it will throw a CEL, kick itself back into OBD2 open loop "LIMP" mode and you're gonna hurt.

That's just the way it is, it doesn't matter what "kit" it came with. Piggybacks are a bandaid fix, they don't SOLVE the problem, they give you a small way to work around it.

The best thing you can possibly do with electronic piggyback fuel manipulation is to REMOVE fuel -- period. It doesn't matter what you're talking about, whether it's a Hyundai, Honda, Mitsubishi or a WRX. If you slap an S-AFC on a Mitsu Eclipse, you use it to dial DOWN a set of larger injectors. Same goes for a Honda...

This isn't rocket science, it's just the way your stock ECU works.

-Red-
 

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red is right cobra..

so, if you want to use the new nitrous computer with your car, you would have to put a bigger fuel pump on it, and then tune it DOWN... OR , get larger injectors AND the bigger fuel pump and then again, Tune it DOWN...

not a bad idea, how much is that sucker anyway? i like the SAFC, but i cant afford it, so F-THAT.


<hr width=60% noshade size=1 align=left>1999 Hyundai Elantra Auto. 80HP Wet Nitrous System. http://www.pcrepairworld.com/nitrousworld
AIM SN: FordFasteR
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Guys.... Thanks alot for your input. I will check out Auto Perfomance Engineering!


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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
It doesn't matter, unless your controller DIRECTLY (and I mean right up to the wiring harness on the injector itself directly) attaches to the fuel injectors, then you have a problem.

All of the piggyback systems that "modify" the stock fuel delivery usually do so by changing the readings of the MAF sensor input on the stock ECU.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
Like I said, you obviously don't have any experience with this system. It has its own controller that you program with a laptop. It has no connections to the ECU. It's NOT a piggyback system, like the S-AFC. YES, it does have 4 leads that attach to the fuel injectors. One lead for each injector. That said, does anyone have any experience with the VCN-2000?


<hr width=60% noshade size=1 align=left>Later,
Aaron Britt
Events Coordinator, Las Vegas F-body Assoc.
'97 Trans-Am WS6
'96 Elantra GLS
"The shortest distance between two points is a straight line........but, it's not as much fun."
<img src="http://www.speedcraving.com/i8acobra/flag.gif">
 

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quoted....

"""Not quite...

If you are making enough power to warrant such a fuel pump, then you are making enough power to purchase a seperate fuel pressure regulator system. BEGI makes them for around $150.

If you don't need that much fuel, you don't need this pump. The same goes for your in-line pump... You've installed a pump that flows about 4x more than the stocker at the stock pressure levels -- what did you EXPECT to happen?

The project that I am building requires 165lph at 68psi, which this Walboro is capable of.

Please don't preach to those who know what they're doing.

-Red-
""

red, a begi fuel pressure regulator, and others like it, such as the vortech fmu and others.. are NOT going to solve my overly rich problem.

1. they are designed to mount on on the return fuel line AFTER the stock regulator.
therefore, it will NOT reduce the fuel flow in any way whatsoever and i will continue to run rich because the fuel is being held back by the stock regulator.

2. the only solution would be to get an adjustable regulator that REPLACES to stock unit.... (who makes that??.. i dont know..)

3. another solution could be to remove the stock regulator, and maybe TEAR out the internals of it, so that it just flows directly past the vane... and then mount one of those aftermarket regulators on and tune it thereafter...

maybe the stock regulator can be bypassed by some custom made plumbing.. but i have not looked at the fuel rail closely enough to determine if i can manufacture it myself or not...

i will update you on my progress as i come up with more ideas.<img src=/images/forums/snitz/guns.gif width=33 height=16 border=0>


<hr width=60% noshade size=1 align=left>1999 Hyundai Elantra Auto. 80HP Wet Nitrous System. http://www.pcrepairworld.com/nitrousworld
AIM SN: FordFasteR
 

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No, you remove the stock regulator and replace it with a BEGI static adjustable one. You *can* use it afterwards, but it's not necessary.

Not that hard...

-Red-
 

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i didnt notice that it was a direct bolt-on replacement.. all i saw was the regulator, and the nipples to adapt it using seperate fuel lines..

hmm.. whats the part # that fits the 2.0L beta engine ?



<hr width=60% noshade size=1 align=left>1999 Hyundai Elantra Auto. 80HP Wet Nitrous System. http://www.pcrepairworld.com/nitrousworld
AIM SN: FordFasteR
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
http://www.autoperformanceengineering.com/

Absolute top-notch parts, Hyundai cars are explicitly listed... Highest flowing in-tank pump available is only $115 shipped.

This is where I just bought mine... Walboro 255lph hi-pressure model. Can run my needed 165lph at 68psi for my project.

-Red-

Hey Red, thanks for the info. I finally ordered my 255lph Walbro pump from these guys and it was delivered in two [email protected]#king days. That was awesome. For $99.75 that was a good deal. Thanks!


<hr width=60% noshade size=1 align=left>That's right, a Hyundai just whipped yo ass!!
 

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Diambo, glad you liked the link. That guy sells good pumps for cheap and REALLY fast. Never had a single person say anything bad about him or his sevice.

Ford, as you can guess, nobody makes a "Hyundai Specific" regulator. The BEGI unit is simply an adjustable rising-rate unit, you'll still need an adjustable static base pressure unit as well from someone. The install is simple: remove the stock regulator, thread in an NPT fitting (takes a tap-and-die set along with some threadlock/sealant) and then go to town.

I'm making my own fuel rail with some hollow bar stock (props to Joel for finding the steps to do it) so both ends of my rail will be NPT fittings. Total piece of cake for my project...


<hr width=60% noshade size=1 align=left>-Red-
 

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Red,
Hey have you ever had a stumble problem with your Walbro? like for some reason it just kind of dries out? And for a pump that high in pressure do you have to get rid of the fuel pressure regulator, because I have an adjustable one.<img src=/images/forums/snitz/eek.gif width=15 height=15 border=0><img src=/images/forums/snitz/thumbup.gif width=25 height=18 border=0>


<hr width=60% noshade size=1 align=left>The need for speed!!!!!!!!!
 

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I've never had anyone with problems about cutting out at high RPM's, but the "Help Section" of that guys' website mentions DSM-esque pumps cutting out at high RPM's because of a faulty install.

There is an O-ring that must be tightly fastened down near the mounting bracket, and some people have had problems with cutting out at high pressure because that O-ring fitting wasn't tight enough and leaks.

You don't NEED to ditch your stock regulator, but if you don't, your base fuel pressure will be very high (50+psi on the fuel rail at idle) which will make your car run unecessarily rich.


<hr width=60% noshade size=1 align=left>-Red-
 
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